WTF is happening in London?!

[AngeloMysterioso]

In the last few days alone, there’s been a stabbing outside Liverpool St station, two moped muggers punched a women to the ground for her handbag and phone, and Michael McIntyre was forced out of his car and had his watch taken off him by another pair who smashed his window in whilst his child was in the back!

Even where I live in a pretty boring zone 4 suburb two teenage boys were stabbed a few streets away last week.

I know it’s never been the safest of cities but it feels like it’s got so much worse in the last year or so. What the hell is happening?

Ok, I’m preparing for a flaming here but I grew up in West London, still live here and this is how I see it.

I’m mixed race and from a poor family, the result of a teen pregnancy, a dv marriage and a bitter divorce. I have lived in social housing, grotty private rented and now own. If you met me now, you would think I was as middle class as my DH. I am well educated with a good state education. This isn’t some sort of stealth boast but rather to explain that I have quite a wide social experience.

I am still friends with lots of my friends from school, some of whom earn more than me and some of whom don’t. One of the boys from my class is the local drugs baron (and much better off than me), we were never friends.

Without exception, my friends had parents who gave them love, boundaries, discipline, made them do their homework and go to school. The way they did it was very different but it all boiled down to the same thing. Some of the parents like mine were very young and had support from grandparents. Some of us came from single parent families or divorced families but we all had at least one parent who worked and was a positive example.

People can be young and stupid, like my DM was in getting pregnant to the wrong boy so young, but she grew up and was adamant that I wouldn’t make the same mistake.

I also think there’s a lot of not so veiled racism on here about young black or mixed race kids. Some of the Caribbean mums I knew growing up were the strictest mums around.

I think it’s all about the parenting and the example that you are set. My parents, and I include my steps in that, are not perfect but they did their best as did those of my friends. For me it was my Mum who was the real example and although we don’t always get on, I am always grateful for that.

Likewise

you just have to look and accept what's going without being too precious that it's beneath you I meant people in general, I apologise if it came across as directly aimed at yourself.

There are a lot of contributing factors - inequality, cuts to services, cuts to police, cuts to benefits, poverty, male entitlement, poor government, poor education, poor parenting, unemployment, fears for the future, Brexit fears etc.

All of these things play a part. I'm not surprised society is falling apart, hardly anyone I know is surprised by this, it's the logical conclusion. 8 years ago a friend said to me, Britain will be unrecognisable in 10 years time. I knew she was right.

Don't expect things to get better until we start addressing some of the above problems.

Again, this is a moral panic, the murder rate was significantly higher for most of the last 3 decades and certainly a higher rate of murders per 100,000 because the population was lower in the 90s and the 00's.

What is going on is that its media outlets report more of the incidents because they have more space to fill.

Just as an example there were 60 more murders in London in 2001 than there were last year, but there wasn't this level of hysteria.

Crime is definitely on the increase where I live (not in London). And police aren't investigating unless it's a serious crime.

That's interesting Categoric.

The crimes now are predominantly committed by males, you are a woman, do you think there is a difference in the path you had because you are a woman?

Oh and violent crime is on the increase EVERYWHERE not just London, but the rate of murder in London is still lower than it was in the past.

Its interesting that the raise in violent crime across the country hasn't been raised here, just London, fits an agenda eh?

Sorry, topcat, firstly you say it's moral panic and then you do admit that violent crime is on the increase.

What agenda would that be?

But violent crime is on the increase everywhere, it doesn't get the coverage London does, in fact its increased at a greater rate in places like Manchester and Liverpool, but its London and its murder rate ( which is lower than for all but 7 of the last 30 years) that gets the hysteria.

Moral panic.

It's been this bad for ages, the media just seem to be highlighting it more at the moment

and its been far worse before!

Four friedchickens - plenty of people survive and indeed thrive on lower salaries in London! In my organisation, some live with families, others are in house or flat shares, some have tax credit top ups related to having children. Some people have changed careers and have already paid off mortgages. Guy who sits next to me rents 1 bed private rent flat in East London on 22k salary Others are already living in social housing on subsidised rents. There are some even managing to buy on these salaries (via part rent/part buy). Of course some may struggle, you won’t get a Chelsea harbour penthouse on that salary (unless have other income coming - e.g. some people have trust funds). Person I recruited saves between 500-1k each month ready for deposit. Rapid salary increases are also more likely in central London for those with right work ethic and values. My cleaner (Eastern European and lived in London around 6 years) has just purchased house with her husband who is a carpenter. Just outside London in Bucks.

Ah here comes the social housing "subsidy" again.

"Rapid salary increases are also more likely in central London for those with right work ethic and values. "

Only in very specific circumstances, but your point then blames those that don't get them for not having the work ethic and values.

Deluded rubbish.

No She's just pointing out those who have the right ethic are more likely to get promoted/pay rises. There is no criticism o those who don't.

Topcat I can assure you I am in no way deluded. My IQ and EI are both higher than average. I live and work in London. My job role (HR) involves deep understanding of the London job market. The organisation I work for is in the legal field. I returned to work after fairly lengthy career break (in that time retrained and unskilled to change career). Started off on £27k salary, after 2 years and co change earned £42k, made redundant found new role on 40k (offered 4 jobs at the same time, highest offering 45k, choose role that was right for me longer term) now on in excess of £50k. Close friend in 1 year saw salary increase from £47k to just under £80k. Just 1 co change and 3 promotions with new company based on her hard work. I volunteer giving careers advice and help people with cv’s, interview techniques, advice on gaining qualifications (these qualifications are often free or low cost) all to improve their prospects. 1 lady went from London living wage as carer to earning over £40k as manager within 3 years. I have helped my previous cleaner set up her own cleaning company, I have no idea what she now earns but she has bought property in London and has a good lifestyle. The opportunities are there in London across a variety of fields. These are just some examples, I have many more. It takes some time and effort, but is most definitely achievable. Anyway, back to the OP those people committing the crimes are not just the poorest. There are many contributory factors. The point I have been making is for some people crime gives them the fastest return. This is generally to support the lifestyle they want which includes buying drugs, buying designer gear, buying flashy cars etc. We need to stop making excuses for the violence and hold those commuting the crimes accountable.

Upskilled not unskilled. Though I did in a way unskilled from previous career!

mummyofthreekids. Nice one, except you forgot the added incentive of not paying any tax if you turn to crime, That makes a massive difference!

wisedad. Yes I forgot about the tax!

It is more possible to do better in London than many other places (like Sunderland where my mother has a lot of family for example). We know someone who came here from abroad, set up a nail thing and has just bought a house ( a house somewhere fairly far out, not near work but still a house when they came to London with nothing but the nail skills)

MeltingSnowflake, I agree 100% with that officer's observation. DV causes untold damage to children who live with it and yet it's the elephant in the room that never gets addressed.

...you just have to look and accept what's going without being too precious that it's beneath you...

I doubt 'too precious' is the problem. The savage logic of welfare allotment makes it impossible for teenagers or adults living in a household with a family to make much over the income threshold before a family crashes out of the safety net. It is not reasonable to expect people to give up welfare for a job that might be zero hours, or a job that casts the worker as an independent contractor, with all that that entails in terms of tax status and other factors. People are not stupid enough to make that leap to precarious self sufficiency when it could jeopardise their family's security.

Individual young people from Ireland, Poland, etc have always been able to make good in London because they are on their own, no family home to worry about, able to work a few jobs at a time because they don't have childcare issues keeping them from working 18 hours a day.

I've only got through the first few pages but it isn't just London. I live in Birmingham and there are regular muggings and car jackings happening in busy locations in broad daylight. A woman was dragged out of her car, which was subsequently stolen, at 4pm in the car park of a local park last week. It's very very worrying.

Austerity and police cuts. Children being raised to put themselves first and fuck everyone else.

Individual young people from Ireland, Poland, etc have always been able to make good in London because they are on their own, no family home to worry about, able to work a few jobs at a time because they don't have childcare issues keeping them from working 18 hours a day.

Again an example of those who are prepared to leave their family and country in search of bettering themselves.

Although Jenny it is all safer than it was. If go back to London in the late 1800s or our highway man days or much further back the days up by my old area up to Hadrian's Wall, all those forts and castles - we actually today live in very peaceful times but with more publicity of the crimes and cameras recording them. That doesn't mean we should try to reduce it still further. We need all these burglars to know if they come in our houses they may get shot to death. if they mug us people around us on the street may well hold them down, arrest them and indeed hurt them. Crime is a risky business and it does not pay. We also need a lot more people dealing with any on line fraud over say £1k not just over £100k.