WTF is happening in London?!

[AngeloMysterioso]

In the last few days alone, there’s been a stabbing outside Liverpool St station, two moped muggers punched a women to the ground for her handbag and phone, and Michael McIntyre was forced out of his car and had his watch taken off him by another pair who smashed his window in whilst his child was in the back!

Even where I live in a pretty boring zone 4 suburb two teenage boys were stabbed a few streets away last week.

I know it’s never been the safest of cities but it feels like it’s got so much worse in the last year or so. What the hell is happening?

In my once quiet borough, there is also a rise in crime. Police cuts. It's inevitable

A lot of these criminals already live in low rent secure social housing and have access to the welfare system as well as all the jobs London has to offer. They don't know how lucky they are to have London on their doorstep. I don't consider them poor at all they have just had it drilled into them that they are perpetual victims and deserve what others have, even if it means commiting crimes. They are much luckier than a huge swathe of London who are renting rooms at private rents so they can go out to their crappy minimum wage jobs. They don't resort to crime. It's all about wanting to look "hard" and "gangsta", there is even a London accent that many young people put on to appear more streetwise, even middle class teenagers do this now.

Although I do manage to go about my day to day life not in a constant state of fear and don't think some sort of vigilante group is the answer. That is insane.

" there is even a London accent that many young people put on to appear more streetwise, even middle class teenagers do this now."

Don't be silly, Multi Cultural London English is a recognised dialect, not 'put on'.

I work in central London and live in zone 4. I have never seen such a police presence as over the past year. Police can and do chase moped criminals. Responses can vary greatly depending on day, time and other incidents occurring at time of call. There are plenty of free and cheap things to do in London and numerous clubs and activities available. Some stuff is just not considered cool enough! You just need to do a little research to find these activities. Unfortunately some people can’t be bothered with any effort and want stuff handed to them on a plate. There has been a massive rise in gangs and also drug related crime. I see children from my daughters old school with parents on good incomes, living in houses worth well in excess of 1 million (majority owned not rented), these problems still exist. The level of consumerism in society is such that people want newer and better constantly. It is pure greed. If these issues are tackled it will help. There are plenty of jobs in London for those who want them, not all pay huge amounts, but some people would rather get income from illicit means. There has always been a rich/poor divide, however the values we used to hold dear seem to be disappearing. Everyone is responsible for making changes, parents need to reinforce values of hard work and honesty, schools need to stop setting kids up for failure. Prepare people for the work that is available, not perpetuate the lie that everyone can be a doctor or lawyer etc. There are only so many of these roles available so teach children to be flexible and adaptable. I have distanced myself from previous ‘friends/aquaintances’ who lie, cheat and break the law to live unsustainable lifestyles. This includes benefit cheats (in various forms), people stealing from employers in various formats, people who have forged qualifications to get certain positions, etc. I really have seen some disgusting behaviours from ‘respectable’ adults in professional roles who wonder why their children are going off the rails. If people stop buying into this consumerism and avoid buying flash cars, expensive watches and jewellery then there wouldn’t be the lure to steal such items.

Nothing to do with poverty or lack of opportunities .There are gangs in my local grammar school, very very tough to get in, less that 2% of applicants that pass the 11+ get a place, but there are gangs there. The majority of pupils come from middle and upper middle class families.

Fantastic post frustratedoldbag.

ok shall I tell you what it is about ? Prohibition.

Completely agree. My DD (17) was at a London park with her boyfriend the other day and a man on a bike came over intimidating and threatening to beat up her boyfriend (who's 16, nearly 17). She said it terrified her, her boyfriend is well built but very short and wouldn't have stood much chance. Luckily he de-esculated it. DD has also been having trouble from a girl who she doesn't know but keeps running into, who's been trying to start physical fights with her. DD hates confrontation and always walks away, but it upsets her, and me when I start to worry what might happen if one of these people had a weapon.

Honestly, it makes me scared letting her go out and about, but she's 17 and wants her freedom. I just wish London wasn't constantly seeming more dangerous.

Surly curly one of the main reasons these offenders use mopeds is that they know police won't pursue if they remove their helmet

Another problem for the police is that the moped muggers have no qualms about driving on the pavement and injuring pedestrians in order to escape. The reticence to chase is due to the risks to innocent bystanders, not just to the muggers themselves.

In our borough it is currently young 12-18 year olds that are the victims of violent crime, mainly stabbings but also shootings. It appears to be turf/drug related. There are now no go areas in certain places. The police cuts have given these gangs freeway to take over the high street and they don't hide what they are doing. I remember posting about it last year and it is worse a year down the line. I do think YouTube, whatsapp, Insta all fuel these wars as well from talking to school kids who know more about what's going on in this area than any politician!

I don't think you can say it only appears worse due to the press over reporting. Stabbings now (even fatal) barely get more than a mention on local news. A few weeks ago 2 children were shot in seperate locations on a Sunday afternoon. The youngest was 12. We've now been told more police will be brought in from other areas as they have admitted that the current cover is inadequate. We hear constant sirens, helicopters but very rarely police walking the streets.

I agree austerity has made life miserable. It's not even unemployment but rather poorly paid employment, poor housing and the growing rich/poor divide. Plus kids with no stability and no one at home to care for them.

I live in Tottenham and I can honestly say I am not scared to go out day or night.
I have I seen arguments that have led to fights, I have also seen the same in Gerrads cross which is an affluent area. Crime happens everywhere and every race is involved in it.
Speaking to a young person and asking why do these teenagers cause trouble he said" no one cares and everyone makes assumptions that we're trouble makers so why not live up to it. Very worrying.
I just wanted to say stop and search I believe is not a solution. I work with young adults with learning disabilities, none of them commit crimes but two of the black residents were stopped on 6 different occasions. When the police found out that they were autistic they let them go. This hasn't happened to any of the white residents, one of which has committed a number of crimes.
I don't know what the solution should be but something needs to be done asap.

Also I saw a post about young parents, I was 17 when I had my first child and I don't live off benefits. My DC is doing extremely well at school predicted to get all 9 for GCSE's and we are a single parent family.

There are plenty of jobs in London for those who want them, not all pay huge amounts, but some people would rather get income from illicit means...Everyone is responsible for making changes, parents need to reinforce values of hard work and honesty, schools need to stop setting kids up for failure. Prepare people for the work that is available, not perpetuate the lie that everyone can be a doctor or lawyer etc...If people stop buying into this consumerism and avoid buying flash cars, expensive watches and jewellery then there wouldn’t be the lure to steal such items.

To a certain extent I agree that parents' attitudes are part of the problem (hence the LV bags a PP mentioned, and the pressure around material goods). The culture surrounding us plays a part in forming character.

But I would question the idea that people have choices about honest work. If it doesn't pay enough and it isn't secure enough to afford a place to live, and food and clothing, why would anyone risk losing whatever benefits they are entitled to in order to make that choice? If a single mother can lose benefits or rule out getting certain benefits by enrolling in a course that might lead to a job, how does that benefit society as a whole? The factors that push people into the underground economy have to be tackled.

The tackling can happen from various angles. One is adequate policing. One is the concept of a living wage, affordable housing and developing a climate of what I would call social fairness - and the perception of fairness - in general.

Police cuts, welfare cuts, cuts all over the place - the result of voting blue.

Whilst we don't go around stabbing people etc, you have to admit that there is a lot of submerged rage in all of us about how unfair everything seems to be at the moment.

I think that has always been under the surface, but with Universal Credit and the housing crisis plus the decimation of the high street plus problems in the NHS plus the closing of many community resources like libraries, there is a perception that large swathes of the community are being forgotten entirely, and that nobody in power and no-one in the middle classes cares about them. This is not an unreasonable feeling, given the Grenfell disaster.

There is more to 'the values we used to hold dear' than the Dixon of Dock Green trope. There used to be more honouring of the social contract, more of a feeling that everyone was invested in making it work for every class of society.

To be expected when people know they can get away or a soft sentence. A machete carrying nutter who held up Tesco got away scott free and yet I know someone who went to jail for insulting Islam. The rest of the country has had police cuts and poverty is no excuse, when we had worse times in England. There were enough police for the Royal wedding, I guess they are not being used wisely. As someone who lived in NY, actual violent crime figures were lower than Bristol UK, 15 years ago which is why I went there and felt safe walking around at 4am alone. I dread going out at any time of day here.

There were enough police for the Royal wedding, To be fair, I expect leave was cancelled, shift re-arranged and Police brought in from other forces.

Haven’t read the full thread and not necessarily related to crime but I was in Westminster and walked up to Victoria tonight - the homelessness :( never in my 20 odd years of working in that area have I ever seen so many single people and couples sleeping on the streets. It made me feel so sad.

Re. the post saying the ppl in the 2011 riots were threatened with loss of their social housing .............yes i remember it well I dont think the middle class doctors daughter was threatened with any such punishment though.

I remember two lads being charged and i think they also served time............for threatening to riot on Facebook

Yet the many MANY people making racist slurs on Twitter towards the man who lived in Flat 16 in Grenfell Tower have got away with it. There have been no arrests AFAIK.

Those moped muggings...........there is NO excuse for it. But there is a lot of anger .............Helen Mullins and her husband killed themselves when tracking miles and miles there and back to a food bank got too much. They left behind a teen daughter. How do we think she feels about the system in this country now?

Recently a single mother killed herself as a result of the struggle of being on Universal Credit. She left behind a young child. I wonder how that child will feel about the system in this country when they grow up.

What im saying is..........its not just whats happening now As a society we are storing up more problems for the future.

." Look at the increase in attacks on disabled people."

Disability hate crime caused by the "scrounger" rhetoric.

An image of 'grapes of wrath' springs to mind.

Also the old saying, 'you reap what you sow'.

The attitudes towards people who live in social housing are disgusting (i was reading some older SH threads on here this week.............just curious to do a comparison pre and post Grenfell. ) the attitudes from the SH tenant haters have actually got worse post Grenfell. And not just on MN.

mothertrucker you seem to think that those living in private rent are all saints and those living in social housing are all feckless. going by your post and following it through to its "logical" conclusion that means that if one of the private renters DOES get a SH place they "automatically" become feckless or are thought of as such. Does this happen the day the removal van pulls up outside the SH house/flat or after theyve settled in

Its basically another version of someone losing their job ..........then a few weeks later being labelled a benefit scrounger.

I think the ARMY should be drafted in, just as it happens when a city anywhere in the world becomes "lawless"

The army unlike the police is not trained to take hostages. Therefore a lot of criminals will get shot in this scenario. That’s fine as long as the army are not blamed.

It is funny how a lot of threads on MN reflect the headlines at the Daily Fail.

I wonder why that could be