WTF is happening in London?!

[AngeloMysterioso]

In the last few days alone, there’s been a stabbing outside Liverpool St station, two moped muggers punched a women to the ground for her handbag and phone, and Michael McIntyre was forced out of his car and had his watch taken off him by another pair who smashed his window in whilst his child was in the back!

Even where I live in a pretty boring zone 4 suburb two teenage boys were stabbed a few streets away last week.

I know it’s never been the safest of cities but it feels like it’s got so much worse in the last year or so. What the hell is happening?

Can I just go back to the original point I made.

A lot of this is a moral panic, the murder rate in London is lower than it has been for most of the last 3 decades It is not higher than New York, the level of crime over all is lower too.

We hear more about crime because of the internet and rolling news.

Moped crime has become more common because there are more mopeds around to buy on cheap leases, or to steal from delivery drivers.

students from the poorest households in London out perform their peers in the rest of the country fairly significantly at GCSE

You left out the cultural issues referred to, though Even within the same schools here in the midlands, students from certain cultures consistently outperform others, even when those with the better results come from a background of some deprivation

I've often thought here's a lot we could learn from the attitudes of some of those cultures when it comes to things like this ...

Even taking out the cultural issues, which some studies have done, London students from the poorest backgrounds still out perform their counterparts in the rest of the country.

www.wired.co.uk/article/stabbings-in-london-knife-crime-murder-rate-crime-gangs-mile-end-grove-road-social-media

This article is somewhat interesting regarding gang stabbings. the argument is that (some) young people have blurred lines between offline and online, so that insults and aggravation on social media spill over into real life.

It is a worrying trend that may well soon apply to everyone, not just youths. Dh and dd were in the cinema yesterday and someone had sat in the wrong seat. Instead of saying, "Excuse me, but I think you're in our seats," the aggrieved party just said, "You're in my seats." When the person disagreed, they said, "Get out of my f-in seats, bitch." Nice!

That people aren't attacking those with less power than them isn't a refutation to the point about this being a common consequence of increased inequality. That's just a strawman some of you have added. Nobody said people experiencing more inequality necessarily hit up instead of down, and indeed they don't. And no, if you're trying to argue that what generally holds good in human societies doesn't apply here, it's not for those of us who have some understanding of social science to prove causation, it's fo you to explain why this is different.

None of this is inherently liberal or hand wringing btw. Again that's an assumption some of you have made. Perfectly possible to accept that this is something that happens when societies grow more unequal, because it is, and also to think the solution lies with more stick instead of more carrot.

I have two sets of known drug dealers on my road. I have no faith in the police so I contacted my MP who wrote immediately to say they’d contacted the chief inspector who would be in touch discreetly and confidentially AND lo and behold it’s been two weeks and nada!!

1. Social issues - crime pays and there are no consequences. So idiots have kids, who grow up to be idiots too. Bringing back the draft might be controversial but would knock the shit out of a few of these wannabe gangsters and provide opportunity and inspiration to those who appreciate it. We are producing several generations of flannels.
2. Entertainment - games, movies and music is at the moment dominated by violence or crime (sexual, drugs, etc.) of some sort which normalises gun and knife crime for our young people. Bring back Shakin' Stevens I say.
3. Social issues - education level and money is now the end game and young people are deemed a failure if they don't achieve. So there is no motive to pursue interests for the majority if they come from a point of disadvantage.
4. Police cuts
5. Lush (just kidding, but still mad at them)

Stop reading the newspapers OP - crime goes in waves; it goes up and then down.

Police cuts
A total lack of youth services
Teenagers feeling like there is nothing else for them.

l left my job with the police 6 years ago. l'd been there for 28 years. When l mentioned to a senior officer that l was leaving, he said "that's the thing. We're losing so many staff with so much experience and we can never get that back."
Younger, inexperienced officers cost their forces less money in salaries. But no amount of money can replace the 'instinct' and experience of long term officers.
One night l was on shift in a town with over 30,000 residents. There were two officers on the shift. lf you have even a minor incident in that situation, it ties up all your resources. The thin blue line is way too thin these days.

Debunked
Surely police cuts can't be the whole answer? That's like saying that the only reason there isn't full scale violence everywhere every day is because of the risk of getting caught.

I think it actually is police cuts. I base this on my observations of the place where I live, a suburb that abuts a major US city with a horrific crime problem in certain areas. One of those areas is directly beside the suburb where I live. Living on one side of a certain street guarantees immediate police response to a call by the municipal police while living on the other side of the street guarantees a wait and your call will be placed in a priority queue by the city police.

I live on the responsive side; the responsiveness is possible because the suburb made the decision many decades ago to maintain a full strength police force and a zero tolerance policy for any signs of gang activity or juvenile delinquency. We have no graffiti. Police respond immediately to reports of underage drinking/drug use in public or at private houses. Police respond immediately for shoplifting and public order offences. Police pull you over for any observed driving infractions - they make their presence felt.

We have police liaison officers in the public high school and the middle schools, and the schools employ a raft of social workers and support personnel to try to deal with troubled families and students. The police run summer basketball leagues in the (well maintained) public b-ball courts to engage young men who might otherwise run into mischief. There are other youth outreach services operated by the municipality. 54,000 people pay extremely high local taxes to make all of this possible.

We moved to London last year from Switzerland. DD (9) bought a new school bag just before we left, a cute but expensive ergonomic rucksac with cherries on it. Our neighbours DD (12) had the same one, DD had a kid crush on her so copied her style.

So she turned up to her first day in Y5 in the UK at a multicultural, socially diverse, zone 2 state school school thinking her cool new rucksac with cherries on was just the thing. Sadly she came home in tears and not liking her new bag. A week later she tells me all the other girls carry their school books in totes, from Michael Kors and Louis Vuitton, and could she have one of those.

Several months later I still haven't gotten over the shock that 9 year old girls attending state schools in average London neighbourhoods, carry their school books in ladies tote bags which cost anything from a few hundred to a few thousand pounds. I assume the LVs are fakes?? Where does the desire and demand come from? When did kids stop being kids and start demanding the lifestyle of millionaire footballer wives? Why isn't the school banning this? Why are the parents buying them these bags? Where does the money come from to buy these bags and other so called luxury designer goods?

Police cuts, poverty, child centred education and sometimes and not always poor parenting.

Oh and no discipline, no fear of consequences or authority. See it in schools daily.

Really? You don't feel safe in Camden? Do you mean Camden Town or the whole borough ?
I live in West Hampstead which is Camden and I feel totally safe day or night.

The police would rather designate officers to going after someone who lifted up someone's skirt in 1974 than tackle violent street crime.
And there's seemingly never ending supply of money in the kitty to continue the search for a certain missing child.
Yes police cuts are largely to blame.
Personally I think the Met could do with another 10,000 officers.
London should be positively SWARMING with police both uniformed and plain clothed.
And the useless mayor is more interested in whipping up anti Trump sentiment than addressing what's going on right under his nose.
Lots of factors involved here.
I'm glad I got out of the dump when I did.
Incidentally Trump is the only politician speaking the truth about our capital city.

Perhaps when it affects the tourist trade they'll do something about it. I'm just glad I don't live there any more.

" I assume the LVs are fakes?? "

ofc they are.
And it wont be 'all the other girls' it will be one or two little madams that were being nasty to your dd. x

To the poster who said that the level of crime has dropped and this is just a moral panic, it really hasn't. Figures are being manipulated plus people aren't able to get through to the police or know that nothing will get followed up so don't feel there's any point. Cuts to police numbers have had a huge impact as had the fact that very few alleged offenders are released on bail. They are now 'released under investigation' so whereas previously people might be on bail and so trying to 'keep their nose clean' for a bit there's nothing now to stop them. Added to that the fact that the Police pursuits are often called off in case of injury to the poor little muggers or to the wider public and there's not exactly a lot to deter them.

I heard the Mayor of London say today on the radio that 80% of the met police budget comes from central government and they have cut it. Plus the London Assembly have increased the amount they have asked Londoners to pay on their council tax as much as they are allowed to every year.

Increased poverty, fewer soft support services, police cuts, cuts in schools, gentrification of London rich/poor divide on the increase

I totally agree with you, that it has become completely terrifying and out of any kind of control. I think the ARMY should be drafted in, just as it happens when a city anywhere in the world becomes "lawless" - which London absoloutely has!!! and then the army of that country steps in to the absolutely "lawless" town or city. They should be drafted in TO OUR OWN COUNTRY and sort OURSELVES out first, before deploying millions of £ to help far reached countries with their own lawlessness!!! I also feel, they should be given the right to shoot to kill these barbaric monsters, who laugh in the face of our PC rubbish lawlessness! We do, really, now have an extremely serious lawlessness problem in London. So many innocent people being killed and maimed. It is already, very seriously, out of hand.

Maybe we need some army on the streets patrolling if the police can't. It's pretty scary but I also think parents (yes us lot) need to be a bit more vigilant with our offsprings - their whereabouts, who do they hang out with, have they got more money recently, what time of day are they heading out at, have any of their clothes suddenly vanished.
I don't remember gangs being around so much when I was younger but now I see them all the time, youths outside tower blocks making YouTube videos seem to be the norm. I wish the youth of today would have a few aspirations and be helped by the government to achieve those goals, without a dream this is what it's come to.

" I also feel, they should be given the right to shoot to kill these barbaric monsters, who laugh in the face of our PC rubbish lawlessness! "

are you actually saying that a pickpocket should be shot dead on sight?
Are you insane?

or just a troll?