To stockpile food, medicine and petrol?

[Laudanumm]

So apparently we're now at very high risk of exiting the EU in March without a trade agreement with the EU. The government wanted to keep it secret, but it's been leaked that the middle of the 3 outcomes they're discussing, so not the bad one, is the port of Dover collapsing on day 1, immediate food shortages and almost immediate petrol and medicine shortages - as in, no food in the supermarkets. It's in the Sunday Times. AIBU to start stockpiling?

Where did it say in the referendum paper that we will go back and ask you to vote in another referendum to see what you think we should do next?
It didn't. Until dickheads likeBoJo and Gove start lobbying for another referendum - they are great at spin - we are stuck with it.
Maybe they will already have their EU residency sorted by then. Like that other famous brexiteer Nigel Lawson.

Agreed it is daft and I voted remain, I just find it a bit mean calling people racist etc and dumb for voting leave.

so were will all the immigrants live during the picking season ?

I imagine if you are moving to a different country to a bit of seasonal work - that sort of thing gets arranged before you get there.
They are going purely by choice, they know when they are going and how long they will be there - they will sort their accommodation. If they decide they don't like it - they can leave. Because it is all a choice for them.

If you can't see how that is different to forcing settled unemployed people out of their homes so they can go and pick on farms many miles away, the frankly you are an idiot. And yes, some of them would be forced out of their homes - if you live in an urban area it is unlikely that there will be much farm work accessible to you where you live. They would have to move - against their will - to where the work was.

What’s the kids got to do with it,

These long term unemployed people who are being forced miles from home - living away from home - in order to pick crops, many of them will have children. Someone will need to look after those children. Even in the event of a friendly neighbour or a willing grandma it is unacceptaple that you would advocate splitting up poor families for the duration of the picking season. Absolutely fucking unacceptable.
And if there wasn't a free child care option - what then - put them into care. You are talking about punishing people children for their poverty. Again absolutely fucking unacceptable. The only other option is - take them with you. Of course they might miss school. And there will still be no one to watch them whilst you work - so they'll really have to come into the field with you. They will start picking out of boredom if nothing else. And there you have it - your new world order - poor children working on farms for free - possibly whilst they are meant to be in school.
As a said, most of the migrant workers were mostly male, mostly young, probably single. They made a choice to come here and arranged everything that needed arranging to make that happen. Child care arrangements will have been far less of a factor for young men without children making an active choice to travel abroad and pick fruit.

The fact that you don't have there wherewithal to consider child care arrangements whilst you are positing big idea like making the long term unemployed do it rather than go to the job centre speaks volumes about you.

Use that very clever brain of yours
Fuck off you patronising twat, I have countered every pathetic argument you have put forward

during the time they are picking they won’t be expected to apply for jobs it’s only seasonal
Again absolutely fucking unacceptable They don;t want to be picking fruit! They want a job, they want security, they want to live at home - with their children - and provide for their families. They want pensions. they want a future. THEY FUCKING WANT TO BE APPLYING FOR THOSE JOBS.
Do you have any empathy? Do you have any idea of the way the world wants? or what human beings need?
Forcing them to pick fruit and telling them they don;t 'have to' apply for jobs is trampling on their right to search for meaningful, gainful employment.
I wasn't thinking about not being apply for jobs from the 'systems' poitn of view - I was thinking about the unemployed people's point of view - you utter twonk.
Making them pick - so they can't apply for jobs - is robbing them of opportunities. It isn't OK to say 'but we'll keep paying your benefits.' That is work house shit right there.

It’s narrow minded thinking like yours that’s holding things back,
No. It is not narrow minded to not want to use the long term unemployed as forced seasonal labour away from their homes and prevent them from seeking out real, full time permanent jobs.
It is the totalitarian, dehumanised, fascistic thinking that you display that is responsible for the terrifying direction this country is lurching in.

Work house you’ve been listening to JRM to much
You are the one that have advocated a modern day workhouse on this thread. Like JRM you think if you coyly don't call out what it is people will go along with it. Your plan to make the long term unemployed pick crops away fro their families, so they have no opportunity to job hunt is a modern day workhouse.
JRM would never have been stupid enough to use the phrase and admit what he would like to see.
It is you that aligns with his way of thinking, and apparently you have been stupid enough to swallow his rhetoric hook line and sinker. To propose a work house and then act like the people naming it are the ones that are imagining things.

I know you have never been on this thread in good faith. And none of your arguments have been good or logical or even consistent. But your mask has slipped and you are actually just being nasty now.

MadeleineMaxwell if that's the case why did DC give the people the vote, which was going to end in an obvious leave result

Because a) it wasn't an obvious leave result in the slightest and DC in his pig-fucking arrogance thought he'd walk a remain result no problem because it's the only sane option and b) he called the vote to shut up the extreme-right anti-EU headbangers in his own party and claw back votes from UKIP.

He failed to predict the political insanity and therefore failed on both counts. It's all his fault and, the very next day, he waltzed off into the sunset because he knew damn well it wasn't workable. And now we're in this mess.

Anyone who think there's an easy answer to this is kidding themselves. There is no possible option that leaves us better off as a country than remaining. Not one. Brexit is going to make us poorer, even Farage has said so. BINO, which is the only option if we want to keep NI on-side, will mean doing (and paying) everything we do now but having no say. It's all complete nonsense, we've all been sold down the river by our politicians and no fucker knows what to do about it. It's all lose-lose.

I don't blame anyone who wants to leave and the brain drain will cripple Britain even further. I wish I was watching this utter farce from somewhere else, too.

I know some good natured, non-prejudicial and optimistic people that voted Leave. But they were prepared to get into bed with racists and allow the continued conning of people in order to achieve it.

Does anyone else feel like this is a nightmare and that we'll all wake up soon, despite the fact that it's getting closer and closer?

Yes, it's taken a horrible toll on my mental health. I hate living with this stress and insecurity. But the wheels are beginning to come off it all - it'll be VERY interesting to see what happens when May tried to do her 12-hour tinpot dictator-a-thon next week.

We can all be conned and manipulated but this snake oil bollocks was so obvious you'd have to be an idiot to fall for it. Or desperate. Either way, you tried to screw over my daughter's future and I can't think nice thoughts about Leavers. Or give a shit anymore if they struggle economically as a consequence of their vote.

GhostofFrankGrimes
Never believed that all of that would go to the NHS ( and it didn't say all of it would )
we can not strike trade deals while still in the EU
Not yet ( you can't say it wont happen in the future)
Not yet ( ditto )
it was in the way some rules was forced on us, in which we had no say ( general public )
Not yet, but even you cant deny the rise in every country of anti EU feeling

Lostinsunshine, I'm as firm a remain voter as any. But surely you can see that many leave voters were just conned by lies and spin leading up to the vote, and the drip drip effect of tabloid bollocks over a generation?

Don't know about you, @user1486062886 , but if something isn't working in my house (including relationships), I try and fix it. I don't smash it up and walk out in a huff.

Good lord, Brexit has been a short, sharp lesson in why we have a representative democracy and not a direct one. For that, and only that, I am grateful.

@Mrsramsayscat , I can see that people were conned. I'm sure I get conned because all sorts. But not this. It's too important.
I focus on my family and our needs and no longer give a shit about other people. Because if they gave a shit about all of us they would have voted Remain.

it was in the way some rules was forced on us, in which we had no say ( general public )

Never heard of MEP's? The UK agreed with something like 97% of EU regs.

Not yet, but even you cant deny the rise in every country of anti EU feeling

Nothing to do with the tabloids peddling bullshit?

Icantreachthepretzels so if accommodation is sorted, it can be for the people coming to do the work, I kept forgetting every person that is unfortunate to be unemployed is at home looking after kids, there are no single young, middle aged, two parent families, that could do the work, i'm a working mum and in my job i have to work away from home time to time, that's different i suppose ?

what good would it do the leaker to not release scenarios 4 and 5

Did you miss the fact that when we thought there were three scenarios - they had only leaked the second one? People have told you that repeatedly on this thread. They were always holding something back.

Now I cannot speak as to another human beings thought processes... but it seems to me they thought scenario 2: food shortages in a few days, medicine and petrol shortages within two weeks were probably dire enough to frighten everyone - with the added menace of 'and that's not even the worse that could happen.'
Scenarios 4 and 5 are so god awful (4 is military running the country - but thought unlikely due to lack of troops and 5 is the UK is decalred a disaster zone and the UN has to take control) that they are more easily dismissed as 'never gonna happen'.
But something that is a real possibility - food shortages, we've seen that during the recent snow, we all have a basic understanding of supply chains... that's something we can get our heads around, something we understand - and bad enough to make us afraid. Then added with the sucker punch 'and that isn't the worst thing that can happen.'
It's very effective. If they were aiming to make people realise the seriousness and not get themselves dismissed as hysterical loons - scenario 2 id the right one to leak. They showed a good understanding of human psychology in choosing it.

Plus it means, if scenario 2 doesn't make people wake up and start to worry (as it doesn't seem to have done) they do have more ammunition - more scenarios to release. No one would believe 5 out of the gate, but if 2 enters social conscienceness then three won't seem as bat shit, and 2 will look more likely. And the same with 4. and the same with 5.

And no - the civil servant does not feel guilty for what they're doing. They leaked the report because the govt is ignoring it. They are incredibly angry. It is them that on North's blog (and North is a brexiteer) revealed the existence of 4 and 5. Because nothing was done about 2.

I desperately hope this civil servant is unhinged and there is no possibility of us ever being declared a disaster zone and the UN having to come in (more from embarrassment than anything else) but they have access to better information than me. Certainly scenario 2 does not seem far fetched to me, though, it seems like the logical consequence of crashing out of a trading bloc and having to start everything again all at once. It was absolutely the right scenario to leak.

GhostofFrankGrimesNothing to do with the tabloids peddling bullshit?
Italy the latest one

Italy the latest one

Italy isn't leaving the EU, it doesn't even want to leave the euro.

Icantreachthepretzels But don't you realise that it just adds even more fear to the fearful and ardent leavers dismiss it as more evidence of project fear, it is hardening there resolve if anything.

GhostofFrankGrime i didn't say leave, the rise in votes for parties with anti EU, Immigration, Euro polices

I commend my fellow civil servants for leaking the document, after all we are here to serve in the public's best interests and quite frankly the MPS are serving theirs jot ours

user1486062886

If you are so certain that its going to be doomsday you think it will be, you have plenty of time to leave this country.

We did leave, we struggled through the Great Recession, then saw this on the horizon and moved to the USA. Now we get to watch the end of my birth country on television.

siwel123 i thought you were their to serve the existing government, why do you want to panic already concerned people ?

Project Fear looking more like Project Common Sense, eh, @user1486062886 ?

Icantreachthepretzels if it all goes tits up it won’t be the leavers fault, too true, that’s the best and most true comment you’ve made today.

Actually I believe it was Frequency that said that, not me.

You can deny responsibility all you want but it doesn't change anything. Just like a thief can deny he stole something all he wants - doesn't make him innocent.
If you are not adult enough to take responsibility for your vote - and accept the consequences - then you are not adult enough to vote.

It was DC's fault he asked the question. He should never have done that. But it is leavers' faults that they voted to leave. You can't change the question you are asked - you have no control over it. But you can control and you are responsible for the answer you give.
The govt had no plan for brexit. We knew they had no plan for brexit. If you voted for brexit you knew you were voting for some vague, ill thought out notion. That was an irresponsible choice that you made. And it is your fault and no one else's for making it.

The current govt are doing a very bad job at organising brexit. That is their fault and no one else's.

But any leaver who is complacent about what is happening, or is deciding to put their head in the sand - or in the face of disaster deny their part in it is again making a choice. Every single day, you choose to let the govt get on with this hatchet job by maintaining your silence. And you are responsible for that silence.
If you voted brexit - and you are not happy about the way it is going - do not wring your hands and deny responsibility, that only makes you more culpable. Tell the govt you aren't happy - tell them you have changed your mind, email you mp. Email the rebels and offer them words of support, email the labour party and tell them you won't vote for them if they maintain their ridiculous brexit stance. Start sharing information on social media - admit on social media that you have changed your mind, and encourage others to speak out, as well. Go on the march on June 23rd. There is loads you can do to express your disappointment in the brexit we are getting - even if you still believe 'brexit' as an intangible concept is the right thing to do

You are an adult. you are responsible for everything you do and everything you fail to do.
If DC hadn't asked the question we wouldn't be in this mess.
If 17 million people hadn't voted to leave we wouldn't be in this mess.
Those 17 million do share some of the blame. And no matter how many times you deny this - it will still be so.

@siwel123
We can't just say people who voted leave don't care about the country. Yes they didn't vote how we wanted but everyone has there reasons for voting leave or remain
I think they care more about a misty vision of an age past most of em. They either didn’t do enough research or didn’t believe in the consequences of Leaving.