I’m putting this out there. High heels.

[Undercoverbanana]

I think they are ugly and make women/girls look ridiculous. AIBU?

You honestly believe society doesn’t teach women that their body hair should be removed?

I know that you know that is nonsense. You’re just being belligerent and I’m not sure why

I am incapable of walking in heels, for no medical reason, I just can't do it. I'm so sad. I'd love to be a heel wearer!

You honestly believe society doesn’t teach women that their body hair should be removed? I know that you know that is nonsense. You’re just being belligerent and I’m not sure why

I have repeatedly stated that my armpits and my pubes are wherever nature takes them, apart from the occasional pit wax, because I enjoy it, but I find my leg hair very irritating. There's no belligerence about it.

And I’ve repeatedly stated that this conversation isnt about you but about society as a whole.

My goodness how arrogant are you?

Unless you’re able to give me ANY realistic reason why adult human females are taught to remove all signs they’ve gone through puberty

I wouldn't say that's strictly true, as breasts are pretty popular with men and society pressurises women to make them bigger.

The hair removal is a complex issue. I find it revolting that many women feel they should remove pubic hair, in the context that they'll feel ashamed if they don't, that men won't like them etc and I know some men and boys do consider it disgusting if women have pubic hair, which is also societally conditioned (bet they generally didn't 200 years ago).

But, removing body hair is not in itself a terrible thing. It's only when it's gendered and pressure is put on women via porn that I'm not happy about it. Modifying hair has been done for millennia by both men and women, and I think it's interesting that it's the norm (though perhaps less so with current trends) for men to shave off facial hair, and no one berates them for trying to please women or bowing to sexist pressures.

What's important is not policing what women do and telling them off for not making a feminist choice (although I agree that there is such a thing as a non-feminist choice, and feminism is not "about choice", it's about equality).

What matters IMO is addressing the reasons and trying to see them clearly and understand how you are and are not influenced by them.

We are all swimming in society's expectations, embedded sexism and ingrained misogyny. That doesn't mean you can't become aware of it, examine it, and make considered decisions with those forces in mind.

I am incapable of walking in heels, for no medical reason, I just can't do it. I'm so sad. I'd love to be a heel wearer!

They're not really meant for walking in. They're for sitting down in.

Technically speaking, a foot needs a full range of motion when walking, from heel right through to the toe. Restrictive shoes like high heels don't allow the foot to move fully (or at all), which is why you need to 'learn' to walk in them.

I am another who grew up with a mum who didn’t own heels, largely, I think because she is exactly the same height as my dad so would have been traditional enough not to want to tower over him.

Objectively I do find heels weird. The ‘thing’ stuck on the bottom of a shoe just looks odd to me. I also can’t begin to put myself in something that hampers and restricts my movement, shoes or skirt that I can’t run in. I just like feeling ‘natural ‘ in the way I move.

I also wear very little make up and have never removed pubic hair. (Never seen the point or felt the need)

But this is me and my style. Everyone else must do what feels best for them. A woman needs to feel comfortable in her own skin, However presented.

I don't like heels and have never felt particularly comfortable in them. I've worn them sometimes to "fit in" with what's expected, but that's all.

There are millions of flat-shoe-wearing women who are attractive to men. And they'll choose to be with the sort of men who wouldn't expect them to totter around in something they don't like - so it's win-win

I saw a woman in 4 inch pink stilettos at 10.30am today. In a garden centre. The mind boggles.

If you don’t like them don’t wear them.

Problem solved.

I was busy browsing the lovely rubber clogs.

And I’ve repeatedly stated that this conversation isnt about you but about society as a whole. My goodness how arrogant are you

Less arrogant than you, darling. Like I said, society does not expect women to shave till they look like 3 year olds. Not that they would anyway, given that they're adult women.

My friends mum always wears her heels - she is over 80 , thin as a rake and looks wonderful and walks properly in them too. I am in awe of her - rarely seen her in flats.
She has a great style I’ll never have!

‘Darling’

JFC

Darling’ JFC

Is it over now? Please say it ain't so.

High heels with a slim/stilleto heel, on someone slim to medium sized, make you look great provided you can walk. They lift the bum, elongate the legs, tighten the calf etc. However if I put a little too much weight on, they look awful as the heel is too thin for the width of me above it, and look like those there poor shoes are struggling to take my weight!

Kittenbeast please explain these and these delightful memes if the choice to remove body hair is just something some women do with no societal pressure at all.

I see no common sense or indeed any link between pubic hair fashion and sexual abuse of primary school aged girls CantankerousCamel. You are of course entitled to formulate whatever opinion you want. The rest of us are equally entitled to think it ridiculous and not to take it into account when it comes to personal grooming.

Great. We are talking about society, not ‘you’

Oh sorry. I must have got the impression from your posts about your personal experience of the efficacy of anti- perspirant that personal comment was allowed.

I see no common sense or indeed any link between the suggestion that an adult women shaving her legs is trying to make herself look like a pre-pubescent.

Why do adult men shave ? Are they trying to look like boys?

Lass of course I have used my personal experience to decipher my opinion of a social norm.

That’s perfectly reasonable.

Deciding that an entire conversation about social norms boils down to how you like to be spooned in bed by your partner (cough kitten) is another thing entirely.

CountFosco I don't know how many times I have to say it. This is getting tiresome now. There is no societal pressure. Nobody gives a fuck if you shave or not, and the ones who do aren't worth shit. Honestly, it's really simple.

I am absentmindedly watching a -shit- programme on Sky Living. In the last half an hour there have been shaved men, bearded men, men in suits, men in shorts with hairy legs.

Not ONE woman with a scrap of body hair below her eyebrows or with one wrinkle.

This is what we mean by societal norms.

Why would anyone wear something that will deform their feet?