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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this doesn't help women to be taken seriously in the workplace?

128 replies

Tryingtochangeitall · 02/06/2018 11:35

I attended a conference last week where there were a number of speakers.

The only woman as part of her speech referenced her important roles outside of work as a wife and mother Hmm

None of the men said anything remotely similar.

I didn't need to know that. It doesn't make her better at her job and I just found someone successful and clearly good at their day job referring to themselves as a wife rather demeaning. It would have been slightly better had she perhaps referenced a supportive husband and family, albeit still irrelevant.

I feel it plays up to the idea that women aren't as work focused and professional as men.

OP posts:
TheStoic · 02/06/2018 11:37

Seriously?

ReanimatedMuse · 02/06/2018 11:37

I disagree. It plays against the idea that you can't do both and because you are a wife and/or mother you can't have a successful career.

It's really important that women know they can do both

AnnieOH1 · 02/06/2018 11:37

I'm sure this will turn into a bun fight but I do agree OP.

Smidge001 · 02/06/2018 11:38

I agree OP, but maybe this woman had no interest in trying to push the point that women can be as focused and professional as men.
She may in fact not be one of them anyway Grin

Original poster
Tryingtochangeitall · 02/06/2018 11:39

Yes, this happened.

I don't think we need to 'tell women it's possible. Isn't that a bit patronising? No one is telling men they can be a success even if they have a wife and children!

OP posts:
LighthouseSouth · 02/06/2018 11:40

Agree, why not just talk about the work. I should add, I've heard men do this and get annoyed with that too.

Dancingtothebeat · 02/06/2018 11:41

YABU. There is still a culture which expects women to hit a glass ceiling if they have a family. An assumption that they will go part time or work won’t be a priority. So she was absolutley right to undermine that stereotype publicly. The men wouldn’t have needed to do that as they won’t be expected to conform to a stereotype. But women are often expected to choose between career progression or a family.

I would have been really inspired that someone was bucking that stereotype and was prepared to do it so publicly.

TheStoic · 02/06/2018 11:42

I guess if you think being a wife/mother is demeaning, you would necessarily take it that way.

The company I work for would’ve lapped it up. They pride themselves on work/life balance.

Porpoises · 02/06/2018 11:42

I think she should have every right to say that and be taken seriously at work. Why should a 'serious worker' have to never mention their life outside work? And why should every woman who gives a talk be responsible for the image of all women?

ButchyRestingFace · 02/06/2018 11:43

I ... sort ... of... agree, OP.

On the other hand, aren't you expecting her to "slot into" the male norms of what is acceptable to talk about in such a situation?

titchy · 02/06/2018 11:43

Hmm. On the fence a bit here.... I'm not sure it's harmful tbh. Unless she wittered for hours about Jonny's first purée. Though plenty of male conference speakers I've heard have mentioned their kids - even had a photo of them on a slide in the keynote!

timeisnotaline · 02/06/2018 11:45

It depends. Certainly internally it makes a big difference to women’s ambitions and sense of the possible to know that women can be senior without pretending they are single/male and working all the hours god gave and is a big part of our mentoring and encouragement. I have had partners at work say they want to make the balance work for me , knowing I have a young child and one on the way. I wouldn’t expect them to say anything about being a wife though!

MsMotherOfDragons · 02/06/2018 11:47

Yes, the men should do this too and normalise having a full life as a parent, child, partner etc -- rather than pretending they have nothing to do with it all, and relying upon the unpaid emotional and practical labour of women (who do all these things PLUS work).

You never see "David, 45, CEO and father of 3" referenced, whereas it's the first thing anyone puts about a woman in a prominent position. Men need to step up here!

Original poster
Tryingtochangeitall · 02/06/2018 11:47

I don't view it as professional to refer to yourself in those terms. It just perpetuates the women are all wives and mothers trope. And not interested in careers but will produce 30 Instagram photos of little Freddie on holiday etc.

I think referring to yourself as a wife is demeaning. You're basically defining yourself by your marital status. It would have been better for her to refer her husband, but even then I don't think it's relevant, necessary or appropriate.

As for engaging other women, it wouldn't engage those who have np interest in marriage (like me) or who are gay and definitely wouldn't be able to get up there and refer to/ show pictures of their same sex spouse...

OP posts:
TheStoic · 02/06/2018 11:48

Though plenty of male conference speakers I've heard have mentioned their kids - even had a photo of them on a slide in the keynote!

Oh it’s WONDERFUL when dads talk about their kids at work! It’s only women who shouldn’t. See: parents who leave work early to see their child’s play/sporting event/performance. Dad = father of the year. Mum = unreliable liability.

reeldoop · 02/06/2018 11:50

I also kind of agree and never mention my own kids in a work situation, (unless someone asks or tells me about theirs first).

However, i have noticed that it is getting much more common for men to do similar in the industry i work in (IT} so i think it may be gradually changing. Ive seen a couple of male presenters mention their kids. I work for an American company and the men are much more upfront about having kids, eg talk to them on conf calls when they come in the room etc, wheras mine are on pain of death to make any noise and we communicate with a series of complicated hamd gestures Smile.

I go with the prevailing attitude, but certainly wouldn't raise my head above the parapet like that female speaker did. If she's younger, maybe shes got the right idea though really and maybe the days of being a professional woman and having to hide the fact that you have kids are coming to an end? which can only be a good thing really.

Original poster
Tryingtochangeitall · 02/06/2018 11:51

I don't agree with either sex playing the kid card. In fairness to the men yesterday, all have children and are married. One referenced made a joky reference to their teenager. The others didn't mention it at all. Because they were there to talk about company performance and growth not their personal lives which is right.

OP posts:
RunMummyRun68 · 02/06/2018 11:53

I agree with you op

TheStoic · 02/06/2018 11:53

So are you talking about the specific situation you were in yesterday? Or about women in general talking at work about their role as a mother?

PaintedHorizons · 02/06/2018 11:53

I agree OP. Went to an academic conference in December and the female speakers both did flirty, jokey intros referring to their children and grandchildren in a "cute" way and "all the work" involved in Christmas. Why??? It was cringeworthy.

The male speakers focussed on the research. (One was diabolical - but for other reasons!!)

Original poster
Tryingtochangeitall · 02/06/2018 11:54

One made a jokey reference to their teenager that should say. Not sure where the extra referenced came from. This was part of their intro, and just an offhand comment. Not pictures and reference to how important being a mother was.

OP posts:
SardineReturns · 02/06/2018 11:54
So what one woman said at a conference reflects badly on ALL women working in the UK / the world..? This is a standard approach in society and it is sexist in itself. What a man does reflects on that man. What a woman does reflects on ALL women.
My work had 1 (one!) high profile woman and she talked about her family, I think that in society as it stands, it is important for women to hear that it is possible to get to board level of massive companies with family, it provides a role model and encouragement, shows it is doable (although TBF she had nannies Grin) but still. Women with children are still at a disadvantage in the workplace, I have found in my career that the majority of more seriosuly successful women I have met / know do not have kids. So it is useful to know if a woman has made it with kids.
  1. The men at my work talk about this kids too, including the top bods. Our company is very keen on being seen as inclusive / woman friendly so it is quite a trend to talk about their children. Be seen as more "human" or something. Pay gap is still massive so it's a bit all mouth and no trousers but anyway Grin
  2. For years women at work essentially pretended that they had no families - were tight lipped about it all - no photos on desks - hid the fact they had kids out of fear. Fear of being taken less seriously exactly as OP and others have said they would. It is good that this is less now, but sad to see the same attitdudes persist.
  3. She's in a position to speak at a conference, presumably that means she is in a position of some expertise / authority. It is her platform to deliver her message how she feels fit. "Referencing" her family hardly seems a big deal. If she's spent the whole talk going on about playdates and nothing else then sure, but "referencing" her family... And this reflects badly on ALL women... Yes sad to see these attitudes still around.
Bluelady · 02/06/2018 11:55

I think it's brilliant that she did it. You don't have to choose between a career and a family to be successful and she's put it right out there. Good for her.

ReanimatedMuse · 02/06/2018 11:55

I don't think we need to 'tell women it's possible. Isn't that a bit patronising? No one is telling men they can be a success even if they have a wife and children!

Well of course no one is telling men that they can be a success with a wife and child because they don't need to. Men have been having it all since the beginning of time.

SardineReturns · 02/06/2018 11:56

"For years women at work essentially pretended that they had no families"

I should probably expand this is my experience - I'm sure it wasn't the case in all roles in all industries! I'm in part of financial sector and it was the case there, to a certain extent.