To think what happened to Tommy Robinson was wrong

[Amanda18e]

In that the press were not allowed to report on the original grooming trial and the secondary trial of his for contempt of court.

Surely these press bans should only be used for issues of national security like terrorism.

I am sorry but the argument that the trial would have been reported once it was over doesn’t fly.

Because it is linked to other ongoing trials.

To all the people who can't stand him, I'm curious to know, do you get all your information just from the mainstream news

From a range of sources including different news outlets from outside the UK.

Fact: He was under a suspended sentence
Fact: He was reporting a trial as a 'citizen' journalist when reporting restrictions applied
Fact: He was jailed for breaking the terms of his sentence
Fact: Many trials have reporting restrictions on them - this is not unusual in the UK

I’ve been reporting the courts for 16 years now. Every day, up and down the land, there are reporting restrictions placed on cases that are, in my opinion, unnecessary, superfluous and sometimes illegal. When this happens I (and it’s always me. I’m always the only journalist in court unless it’s a famous person in the dock) pass a note to the clerk to ask that I may make submissions to have the reporting restrictions lifted. The magistrates or the judge look at my note and consider whether to listen to me. They almost always do. Then I consult my McNae, I sometimes ring my editor, and I stand up in court and challenge the reporting restrictions using the relevant sections of the law. Most of the time, the judge thanks me then imposed restrictions anyway. Which is fine. It’s their courtroom.

This is how journalists have always done things. It’s polite, respectful, ensures everyone has a say and makes the judge or magistrates have a second think about whether the restrictions are particularly onerous or extraneous.

What I don’t do is a FB Live to our readers, prejudicing the trial and risking contempt of court and also potentially causing the collpase of a trial.

And if a restriction is proportionate and necessary, which it absolutely was in this case, then I don’t challenge it at all.

Strangely enough, TR doesn’t appear in any of the court rooms I frequent to challenge the use of reporting restrictions. Wonder why not, eh?

He doesn't appear in courtrooms (except regularly as a defendant) because he is not a reporter.

To all the people who can't stand him, I'm curious to know, do you get all your information just from the mainstream news?

Not particularly. I've listened to his speeches (which over time have glaring inconsistencies). I supported DayforFreedom in general if not how he used it for his own personal image. He can be charismatic and I'm sure some of the horrible things he's said has happened to him have happened even if he can't prove it, but he's still a hypocrite who by his actions over and over has proved he cares far more about his own ego and image than anything to do with freedom or concern for victims. I strongly dislike how he has used his influence and how he plays the matyr when he is made to play by the same rules as everyone else.

In several of his speeches, including the one he did I think it was at York which I think is still on youtube, he went on at some length about how horrible Muslim gangs are intimidating police into releasing people who commit crimes. That's a possibility and something that needs discussion and investigation which I hope trials like the one on-going will encourage to happen. His own people have attempted the same though - that's not from mainstream news, it's been shown and praised in many 'alternative' news sources. I don't want mob rule. I don't want whoever can get the biggest, loudest, scariest crowd can pick and choose which laws he has to follow. I don't want trials thrown out and people off on technicalities because some self-proclaimed heroes can't for a second think about the obvious consequences of their actions. There is a big issue with people and groups similar to Robinson who think they have the right to go and expose and intimidate people at courts and I for one am glad that they're being shown that they can't. For our freedoms to be protected, courts have legal protections.

geeewhizz Mohan Singh was asked to leave by the police, he was seen as a risk of mistrial and said that he was intimidating people. But, as he doesn't have the same following or media history and wasn't on bail for contempt of court, and actually left for his account, that doesn't get the same air space.

Also Singh didn't livestream video of jurors and defendants arriving at court, which is why TR was arrested.

Interesting, informative post Janice, thank you.

truthfully, do you not find it fucking offensive as a female that muslim women are shamed into wearing cloth over their heads as men will find them too attractive and rape them, why else do they wear that shit if not for perceived 'morality'. Its nothing to do with morals, its to stop themselves being attractive as otherwise they are to be blamed for being raped

As it so happens, English women are expected to be far more modest than the women of country. Even young children are expected to be far more modest (as witness countless MN threads on the lines of "it's not safe", "I don't want to see this on the beach"- referring to 2 yos). These arguments are something my compatriots would find totally creepy. I have never opposed the presence of English people in my country on the grounds that they are clearly women-blaming, child-blaming rape apologists. An argument along those lines could be construed merely by culling MN posts and using this kind of logic. But I'm not going to. Because I don't think it would be fair. Just saying.

I wasn't going to contribute to this thread...but as it's still going...

I used to think he was an awful, ignorant racist, and anyone who supported him were the same-sex picking on Muslims due to their ethnicity. However, although I do see a lot of over-the-top generalisations, outright racism and stereotyping from some of his followers, I have to admit, from watching his Oxford union speech and reading his book, he does have a point.

I don't like his methods..I find him too confrontational and quite single-minded in how he makes his points. However, given his background in Luton- the religious extremism there and the problems with the child rape gangs, I can see why he does what he does.

I myself was drawn into what we now know as a grooming gang when I was at school. I had issues and was very vulnerable. I don't want to go into it in any detail but they were all Pakistani and 18-40. I was on heroin and was threatened with being murdered (and my family's house set on fire). Luckily I was sent away to stay with relatives which saved me from being moved into a flat to be a prostitute (the next step). I have vivid memories of being hauled out of a cafe in front of about 20 pakistani men, by a man I was clearly terrified of, who had threatened to kill me, and not one adult spoke up in my defense. The passing around of girls for sex (sleep with my uncle/cousin/brother etc) was absolutely endemic and clearly culturally acceptable by the many, many people in that night-time economy social circle. There were never any Muslim girls about.

However, although it should have been obvious that there was an issue, I felt very guilty about letting my family down re: drugs and dropping out of school. It was only with the publicised grooming trials and reading about the girls' experiences and watching 3 girls, that I can see so many similarities- in fact it is almost identical. And what makes me angry is that people that spoke up about were (and still are) labelled as racist. Surely the real racists are the ones calling white girls (gorri) slags, and drugging and abusing them?

Now I know it's a minority of men from this heritage that have these attitudes, and overall there are more white men convicted of rape, but there was a definite cultural issue (as in they shared those attitudes regarding women) that need to be challenged. Luckily now, I think the police and institutions such as teaching are recognising this issue and there is a determination to prosecute. Partly you have had brave individuals such as the sexual health workers, police, prosecutors who have been determined to apply the law fairly, but also partly Tommy for forcing the government's hand in recognising it, and when I read his book- the account of what happened to his cousin was something I could relate to. I think that if youvhave immigration, you must be able to be open and honest about any problems that accompany it, so they can be dealt with, and not just ignored.

Saying that he shouldn't have been live-streaming outside a trial and jeopardising the subsequent linked trials. So no, he has not been dealt unfairly with, but I also think he has a valid point.

Lol... same, not same-sex!

To all the people who can't stand him, I'm curious to know, do you get all your information just from the mainstream news?
Not entirely.

I also believe there were systemic issues in the handling of grooming rings like the Rotherham case. There have been lots of issues with institutional cultures over the years (think Stephen Lawrence). That needs to be investigated and followed up and reviewed.

BUT the way to do that is through the correct channels and I think Tommy Robinson selectively latches on to cases regarding people who aren't white and uses them to further his own bigoted agenda, gain likes on social media and to inflate his own ego. Many of his followers also hold racist views and like to blame BME members of the community for their own situations (probably caused by their own poor life choices). Tommy Robinson, like other far right people, has tapped into people's fears and exploits them for his own pathetic gain.

The man is smart enough to know how to rally fellow thugs to his cause, but not smart enough to realise his actions hinder justice being done and puts criminal cases at risk (or he does know the damage he risks and doesn't care).

The problem with Tommy Robinson and his followers is that criticism of him and his ideas are explained away as state conspiracies and media coverups. They are dangerous and delluded.

You're right OP, what happened to him was wrong. He only got 13 months, I'd have been happier with 13 years #prayfortommy

Don't you remember when a mob smashed up a paediatricians's office because they thought her name plate said she was a paedophile? I mean really how fucking stupid can you get?? Like paedophiles have brass plates on their office doors....

That never actually happened. A paediatrician came home to find the word "paedo" written on her door. The police believe that the culprits, like most graffiti artists, were most likely stupid teenagers having a laugh. The story has been exaggerated over the years to make out that a baying mob attacked the paediatrician, trashed her office, burned her house down...

www.pressgazette.co.uk/a-tale-told-too-much-the-paediatrician-vigilantes/

Here in the U.S. during a court trail a ‘gag order’ can be issued which is (I copied and pasted); Gag orders are a form of prior restraint that prohibit parties, lawyers, prosecutors, witnesses, law enforcement officials, jurors and others from talking to the press. Frequently such orders are sought by one party in a case, although judges may issue gag orders on their own initiative.

The press still has freedom to report anything and from anywhere they want during a gag order.

The Supreme Court repeatedly has made clear that the courts may rarely, if ever, prevent the press from reporting on court proceedings and documents.

Since leaving the U.K. over 45 years ago to live in the U.S. I have come to realize that the U.K. is the free country I thought it was while living there. It in fact is highly restrictive, but even so it used to be a safe peaceful place where children could walk around without their parents hovering over them, now those same places are over-populated, dirty and dangerous.

I can see from the hatred directed towards Tommy Robinson why it has become the way it has. It was men with the same patriotic spirit as Tommy who fought in the wars to keep you safe. Now you have turned on them, surrendered any means of self-defensive, given up the freedom to voice your opinion (even if it is offensive) and apparently, from what I’ve read, people of certain religions are protected because of the fear of being accused of RACISM.

All those men died for nothing. I’m so sorry for the patriotic people still living in the U.K. I’m so sorry. The rest of you will get the country you deserve.

CHarolais, i am GLAD you no longer live here. We do not need ignorant racist morons like you here. How DARE you tell me you feel sorry for me - this country has its problems but it is no worse than any other country. My grandfather and father fought for this country and they are not sorry, but they would both be desperately ashamed of ignorant nasty people like you. It sounds to me like you belong firmly in Trump's Amerika.

All those men died for nothing. I’m so sorry for the patriotic people still living in the U.K. I’m so sorry. The rest of you will get the country you deserve

Those men (and women) died to protect the UK from the Nazis.

I wonder what Tommy Robinson's views on female equality, LGBT equality, racism, the Windrush issues, quotas etc are?

I have this feeling he doesn't give a shit about such things. He just uses women's rights ask a front for his hatred of Islam.

Now you have turned on them, surrendered any means of self-defensive, given up the freedom to voice your opinion (even if it is offensive) and apparently, from what I’ve read, people of certain religions are protected because of the fear of being accused of RACISM.

As your friend asked above,
To all the people who can't stand him, I'm curious to know, do you get all your information just from the mainstream news?

@Charolais

What made Britain Great for me... was not bigotry and racism

My grandfathers fought in the war. They certainly didn't fight for England to be less multicultural.

Please stay in America

Since leaving the U.K. over 45 years ago to live in the U.S. I have come to realize that the U.K. is the free country I thought it was while living there. It in fact is highly restrictive, but even so it used to be a safe peaceful place where children could walk around without their parents hovering over them, now those same places are over-populated, dirty and dangerous.

But we can send our children to school without wondering if they are going to be slaughtered by some gun-crazy maniac.

Charolais, you need to teach your mouth to speak, your ar@e just isn't cutting it. Lucky USA to have you...

Waves @JanieBattersby. Another old school court reporter here.

TR broke the law. Simple. If I did that, I'd expect to be hauled before the judge too.

I wonder what Tommy Robinson's views on female equality, LGBT equality, racism, the Windrush issues, quotas etc are?

We know what his views are on female equality, from his conviction for beating up his partner.

We know what his views on race are by his founding of the racist EDL group of thugs.

Since TR has so many friends in the US, perhaps he would be happy to move there and give the UK a break.
Unfortunately of course he wouldn't be admitted to the Land of the Free because of his criminal convictions.

same patriotic spirit as Tommy who fought in the wars to keep you safe
They fought in the wars to defend us from Hitler. You know, the bloke that was killing people because he didn't like their race or religion...

I think Oswald Mosley would have welcomed him with open arms.