To think Mumsnet doesn't hate Instagram influencers?

[jamoncrumpets]

And for prominent influencers who I will not name here for fear of them kicking off and getting the thread pulled to even hint that this might be the case is irresponsible on their part?

SO much gets discussed on MN every day. So much gets criticised. Social media influencers are a new and intriguing phenomenon - why wouldn't they be discussed here? For better or worse?

Many people have supported influencers for the way they earn money. That gets ignored. Many have politely criticised and pointed out ways it could be more ethical. This gets ignored. One or two have made comments that are personal or cross the line, these have been pounced on and discussed publicly.

The 'arguments' die down. People stop caring. Then prominent influencers go and start the whole thing up again.

Blaming MN is just lazy and irresponsible.

@poppytosh you could perhaps just cut them some slack. They have #ad the holiday, everyone knows it @Neilson pp. They have had the worst week. Re. your comment about spreading sickness, if this is a genuine problem, Neilson would not be handing over their IG account to the Ms. If Neilson is ok with it, why aren't YOU????

They haven't #ad the holiday though? I also wouldn't say they have had the worst week but each to their own. I stand by the fact that they put themselves out in the public domain but seem to be above any critical thought as demonstrated by your post above.

I agree, it has not been appropriately tagged in contex of pp/#ad. This is the responsibility of ASA; not MN users or IG users. Report it, let the experts make the appropriate ruling. Just leave them, personally, alone.

I looked at the posts after the earlier thread and not a single one that I could see was #ad.

People who have norovirus type symptoms should not be going into shared swimming pools, it is massively selfish.

Cady thanks for your reply. The person in question is an experienced beauty blogger (miss budget beauty), who I enjoy following on Instagram, so it's disappointing that she is not following ASA guidelines. Since being questioned about it by another follower, she is still continuing not to label her holiday posts as an ad. Reading these threads has made me more aware of this sort of thing, and it seems dishonest for bloggers/influencers to post in this way.

I saw the M's had taken over the Neilson instagram feed today. And they're still not declaring they're working with them in their own posts - a free holiday is definitely still an advertisement.

Never mind, at least they're all over the sickness bug they spread around the resort and their kids can all get stuck back in the kid's clubs until late at night. Good for them.

If Neilson is ok with it, why aren't YOU????

Not sure it’s fair to tell people what they should and shouldn’t be okay with.

I don’t follow this family, but upon seeing the discussion on mn I looked at the ig posts in question. Indeed if didn’t sit right with me the way the family were so much more focused on presenting a fantastic (non-advertised) holiday experience despite their child being obviously very very poorly.

Tbh it made me sad for the child, and therein lies the ethical dilemma of these ig “celebs” not doing what is in the child’s best interest.

Of course this family love their children, I don’t doubt that, but it really feels sad to see the parents windsurfing and meeting friends for cocktails when their child is sick on holiday

Just been in my morning scroll through Instagram and stumbled across this post by mre.soeur. She's in Ibiza "not on my jollies" but to celebrate the launch of a swimsuit. Fine.

She then gets pulled up by someone asking why her post isn't tagged with #ad or #gifted and her response is that she's not being paid and is under no obligation to wear the swimsuit which seems odd if they have flown her out to Ibiza to celebrate it. She actually says "if anything it's #gifted" but still doesn't see fit to tag it.

She also has a couple of comments about the fact it is supposedly a #bodyconfidente (?!) style but only goes up to size 12 and she consistently defends the swimsuit and the brand.

This to me clearly demonstrates the issues around #ads and #gifted and the way the guidelines are applied. Is the fact that she's said she's there in collab with two brands enough?!? It makes me feel like she's trying to pull the wool over my eyes so I don't think it is.

Oh, and also: commenter who asked about as being called a "troll" by other fawning followers. CHECK!

And some other screenshots

Oh FFS those shots! It is all so nauseating. Some serious doublespeak about the brand. Blah blah blah body confidence.. so why doesn’t it go beyond size 12? Because ..blah blah blah.. body confidence not about size...

So much doublespeak she should be a politician.

I'm surprised to see Mother Pukka's response to that post. (Tire Swing's 2nd attachment). And have you looked at the Hunza G feed! It doesn't look like they usually cater for stretchy swimsuit wearers!

Yes, maybe the brand can't force her to post it on her Instagram, but the freebie holiday could certainly be taken as payment in kind for that I'm sure. And if she only ever just takes the freebies and never 'reciprocates' with a tag or whatever then she knows the freebie offers will dry up along with her lifestyle. Just be bloody honest with people. It's a business transaction for sure.

Imagine her saying, amazing Bumble, thanks for the tickets to Ibiza but nah thanks the extremely stretchy high leg yellow swimsuit isn't for me, I'll just put my old Boden one on...nope, not gonna happen (because it's an ad)

The comments under the next post are 🤦🏼‍♀️. Where is your white kimono from? "No idea it's a gift". They are literally dictating the clothes to wear on the shoot and she still doesn't think it's an advert...

I'm glad it wasn't me being super sensitive.

It's stupid because I actually quite liked the swimsuit (upon further investigation it's not quite right for me) but even if it was I wouldn't buy it on principle because her posts look so damn shady.

The Meldrum holiday is probably worse because they haven't made any reference to being there on collaboration or not, just pretending it's a normal family holiday. She has at least explained that it is a collaboration and she was invited there by a brand so in that respect it is reasonably clear that it is a promo - I still believe AD should be used though for absolute clarity and because the ASA say you shouldn't have to wade through the comments to come to the conclusion that it is an advertisement.

The responses she gives to being questioned are telling though because it reveals what rationale the IGers are using as their get-out clauses for disclosure and using AD hashtags. (not being paid in cash, and 'not under any obligation' to post about the product). The fact she has used the bodyconfidente hashtag suggests anyway the brand has exerted some control over what she posts. Influencers seem to view this obligation/control aspect in a far more narrow way than I do, as a consumer. Would be interesting to know what the ASA deem as control, but I don't think they have issued any decent guidance on this yet, which is a problem.

The meldrums are just doing what the ODs did last summer with the #ad denial. And see how well that went for them....

All they would need is one of those "paid partnership with Neilson holidays" on the top of their posts. But is it because they want people to aspire to be like them, to aspire to be the people who can afford 3 holidays in as many months? And declaring that they never pay for any of it maybe takes the edge off that? I dunno 🤷🏼‍♀️ It's underhand though and the ASA need to clamp down on it.

I completely understand the concept of transparency around #ad and why you are concerned about this. I do not however, agree with the direct criticism of IGers, as evidenced here. If you see anything that raises questions, just report it....allow the experts [ASA] to arbitrate. This is not our remit. Re. ethics of using children. Whose ethics are we imposing? Every parent is entitled to raise, and make decisions for their children how they see fit.

Letting people go into a swimming pool when they are carrying sickness bug isn't a parental ethical issue, its a public hygiene matter. Who should we report this to? Maybe the holiday insurance companies when they receive claims from other holiday makers whose holidays are ruined because they catch a bug from the Meldrums?

Yes we are all entitled to raise our children as we see fit, as long as it causes no harm.

The publishing of children’s lives on social media (sometimes to hundreds of thousands of followers) is a new phenomenon that we are yet to learn the long term outcomes of - or indeed how it will impact on these children’s lives later on.

It is interesting and insightful to discuss the ethics surrounding it. You don’t need to engage in this discussion if you don’t wish to @m5

I do follow some instaparents whose content I enjoy (sometimes despite blatant ads etc)

But I find it interesting when I think “would I be willing to share this information about my children online?” Often my response is an immediate “no”. Perhaps before these accounts became so monetised it was only the sharing of sweet/funny/relatable parenting moments but with the inclusion of advertising and the use of children in this- well then the lines of what’s ethical become rather blurred imho

I don't think the sickness bug needs to be reported. I just think it was very poor form of them to not obey basic and widely known hygiene practices (48 hour exclusion for example) to stop the spread. Very selfish and irresponsible. If anyone on social media had said they'd be doing this they'd be getting slated. Like a real celeb for example. Why should the Ms not be discussed? They put their lives out there. They didn't need to share the details of the sickness bug (and I suspect they haven't shared all the details anyway for damage limitation - Mrs M was off the grid for a little while this week too and I wonder if that's when she was down with it). I can guarantee most people (outside the fawning fan girls who comment on their posts) who've seen their posts this week will feel the same and be discussing it with others privately or on forums like this. Just like we do with all people in the public eye.

Not 'Our remit' to comment on public IG accounts??

Yes I was being a bit tongue in cheek about the reporting of the sickness bug. The suggestion that we shouldn't comment on things like that (which I do find ethically dubious) is kind of ridiculous though, and also that we shouldn't comment on them on MN but should "report" things instead, is kind of laughable. We don't have a 'remit', we are just users of Instagram being influenced to on a daily basis. We have every right, as consumers, to comment and discuss the tactics being used.

I think if the meldrums did state that you know what we have been offered a free holiday or whatever it would do no harm to their "brand" at all. It would probably make them more popular as it would be more realistic to say yes we love holidays, we are lucky to be offered xyz so we are going to grab the opportunity otherwise they are just asking for criticism and people taking a more cynical view and opening themselves up for other aspects of the life they choose to put on public display to be challanged/critiqued. It's the same as the swimwear one above. How hard would it have been to #ad, sponsored, paid partnership,gifted whatever and save themselves the hassle of having to answer loads of comments.