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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To assume if you are anti-abortion, you are...

431 replies

Hamandcheesebaguette · 26/05/2018 20:24

...pro a full, complete and comprehensive government benefits system to fund mothers for at least the first 5 years of her child's life?

I'll tell my story, it's not particularly interesting or traumatic, but had I not had access to a safe abortion at 6 weeks then I honest to god don't know how i would have not have ended up homeless or starving.

When I was 21, I met a man. Same age as me. I was working in an airport, leaving for work at 2.45am and usually not getting home until after 4pm. My take home pay was around £980 per month. After rent in my 1 bedroom flat in the cheapest (and also not particularly pleasant) area in my expensive city, council tax, topped up my gas and electricity meters and phone bill (I didn't even have a TV!) I had £35 left to eat and pay for buses to work for the rest of the month. After only knowing this man for 6 weeks, I found out I was pregnant. I was on the pill, maybe it failed, maybe I had missed a couple, I don't know.

Should I have had that baby... how in the hell would I have been able to provide anything for it on that wage? Oh wait, I wouldn't have had a wage at all bevause I wouldn't have had anybody to care for my baby whilst I was working full time and leaving for work in the middle of the night.

So I assume, if you are anti abortion, and I had had that baby, you also agree I should have been entitled to a reasonable council property (not covered in damp or mould or other H&S issues), my rent paid, my council tax paid, plus money provided for gas, electricity, food etc. Plus some furniture (as I always rented fully furnished and didn't have any furniture of my own at 21), a TV, broadband (or maybe I should have sat in with my baby with absolutely nothing except the walls to stare at...)

Plus possible full training paid for by the government when I could have gone back to work once this baby reached school age, as I wouldn't have been a very attractive job applicant by this point.

AIBU to assume this is tour stance if you insist I should have been forced to have been a mother when I didn't want to be one, couldn't afford to be one?

OP posts:
SensoryOverlord · 27/05/2018 23:44

Christ.

It wasn't me who posted that you couldn't know you were pregnant at 4 weeks. It was Salem, who is scarily clueless about biology.

I'm not confusing anything with anything. You were not 2 weeks pregnant when you did a test. You were 2 weeks past conception. You were FOUR weeks pregnant.

That's not silly old me confusing biology and midwife phrases. At two weeks past conception you are classed as four weeks pregnant. By your midwife and Doctor and consulatant and sonographer. And every other person, everywhere.

It's not a debatable issue, it's just fact. A full term pregnancy is 40 weeks long, according to everyone...that's 38 weeks past conception. NO ONE says your due date is at '38 weeks pregnant'. Do they?

LassWiADelicateAir · 27/05/2018 23:51

At two weeks past conception you are classed as four weeks pregnant. By your midwife and Doctor and consulatant and sonographer. And every other person, everywhere

I wasn't referring to the medical terminology. I was referring to the biological fact that at the point I did my test I had been pregnant for 2 weeks, not 4 weeks.

SalemBlackCat · 27/05/2018 23:56

Wow. Calm down SensoryOverlord. You clearly have a bee in your bonnet and are very irrational and obsessive. It was quite obvious I was talking about pregnancy testing, and I am of a vintage that pregnancy tests were not able to predict as far ahead as they are now. Continue making childish and spiteful retorts about me though, it is only reflecting on you.

SensoryOverlord · 28/05/2018 00:31

Last post was to SensoryOverlord whom I am truly cringing for with second hand embarrassment. What on earth gave you the idea that you are 4 weeks pregnant from the date you miss your period? What on earth? facepalm

Er no Salem, you weren't just on about pregnancy tests were you?

You've argued black is white over several posts and posted the most ridiculous, innaccurate information whilst 'facepalming' about the correct and factual posts.

I'm not irrational or obsessed, I just have a low tolerance for idiocy this evening.

SalemBlackCat · 28/05/2018 00:42

SensoryOverlord "I'm cringing for you tbh. Before you get all indignant and shouty you really should know some basic facts."

Remember that aggressive first post of yours to me? You seem to be very hostile, abusive and obsessive. You've been arguing another poster too, and going off at them. Nothing I have written has been ridiculous. You obviously have issues you need to address within yourself to be so aggressive and obsessive.

Nursejackie1 · 28/05/2018 01:00

If these pro lifers are also campaigning with such passion for the father to be EQUALLY responsible in every aspect of having a baby it might take the edge off except for the fact that the woman goes through the pregnancy and birth and usually end up with the lions share of the upbringing. I can't stand pro lifers and their sexist views. I'm yet to hear an unsexist solution viewpoint from their camp.

Nursejackie1 · 28/05/2018 01:09

And just to add I have met a few pro lifers...that pretty much went against what they apparently believe in once they found themselves in a shitty situation which can happen to anyone.

SensoryOverlord · 28/05/2018 01:46

Nothing I have written has been ridiculous

You said (paraphrasing) that everyone knows that you can't know if you're pregnant until at least around 7 weeks. And that no one could possibly know at four weeks. AND that you were not classed as four weeks pregnant when you miss your period.

ALL of which is wrong. And ridiculous.

SalemBlackCat · 28/05/2018 02:43

Again, I was talking about pregnancy testing. I never made a blanket statement that you are not classified as four weeks pregnant. Unlike you who made a blanket statement and I quote: "At the point you miss your period, you are 4 weeks pregnant. " That, is wrong and ridiculous. A person can miss their period and be three weeks pregnant. Or two weeks pregnant. Or even five weeks. You made a blanket statement that everyone that misses their period is automatically 4 weeks pregnant. That is clearly wrong and ridiculous.

BrandNewHouse · 28/05/2018 05:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AlmostAJillSandwich · 28/05/2018 05:38

For the record i am pro choice all the way, due to MH issues IF i ever fall pregnant abortion is my only option.

But 6 weeks is awfully soon to be sleeping with someone. Anyone who is mature enough to be having sex, knows no method of contraception is 100% and there is always a risk of pregnancy. Sex is also not mandatory, you were choosing to have sex, so choosing to take the risk of possibly creating a child. If you are in absolutely no situation to raise a baby, you abstain or you double up contraception, to lessen the risk as much as humanly possible while still being sexually active.

Adoption was an option, should abortion not have been available and the pregnancy resulted in a live baby.

Having children is a privilege not a right, ideally nobody should be having a baby their own finances cant provide for without state help. It should be a safety net for the real unforeseen, like job loss without fault etc, not a funding source they're reliant on. If it means you don't get to be a parent because you're never financially stable, well, the massive over population and global warming knock on effects wouldn't be so much of an issue anymore. So no, you shouldn't get all the things you listed in your OP if you couldn't have a legal abortion. Take responsibility for your own actions.

MyDcAreMarvel · 28/05/2018 09:53

Salem if you are two weeks peganant you haven’t even conceived!

MyDcAreMarvel · 28/05/2018 09:53

Pregnancy is dated from your last period , you don’t know much about pregnancy do you .

MiggeldyHiggins · 28/05/2018 09:57

nd I quote: "At the point you miss your period, you are 4 weeks pregnant. " That, is wrong and ridiculous. A person can miss their period and be three weeks pregnant. Or two weeks pregnant. Or even five weeks. You made a blanket statement that everyone that misses their period is automatically 4 weeks pregnant. That is clearly wrong and ridiculous

Er no, thats dead on, you are quite wrong (and ridiculous)!

GreenTulips · 28/05/2018 10:06

I know that I conceived in the early hours of Sunday 12th November 1989

I did too - in fact the conception woke me up at 4am and I felt a glow and just knew.

Same 2 years later, I just knew I was pregnant.

I doubt it's that unusual.

MiggeldyHiggins · 28/05/2018 10:09

Its more than unusual, its complete fantasy.

SensoryOverlord · 28/05/2018 10:21

When I conceived I was sitting at the foot of the bed. I felt a warm feeling spreading outwards from my tummy and at that point the whole room was filled with an ethereal light.

Whilst I was still staring in wonder, fairies and nymphs appeared all around me, spreading stardust all around. They came closer and closer and touched me and danced all around me and I just knew why they were there.
Because I was still pissed from the bottle of gin I'd consumed that evening.

LassWiADelicateAir · 28/05/2018 15:50

The only time I had sex within that particular cycle was the date and time given. Given sperm cells last for 3 days conception must have happened no more than 3 days after. The day after my period was due, 13 days later, I tested positive.

By the calculation of midwives I would have been stated to be 4 weeks pregnant - in biological duration it could only have been between 10- 13 days. Had I died on that date an autopsy would have found the bundle of cells expected for an ovum fertisiled 10- 13 days before.

Sensory sounds a bit the midwife who told me I couldn't possibly know so accurately- as if I didn't know when I'd had sex.

Frazzledmum123 · 28/05/2018 17:08

Brand new house- I still hate abortion I'm the case of rape if I'm honest but my personal feelings, and I admit they are just that, are that someone choosing an abortion through carelessness, through not being bothered to be careful enough with their contraception is entirely different yes. The raped woman wasn't careless, didn't have a choice. You call it pro choice but you do have a choice, to be a lot more careful about the contraception you use, I do think it's the woman's responsibility yes, you know the possible outcome yet you choose not to bother and the baby pays the price. I don't mean you personally by the way. A raped person had that choice removed. It's still sad a baby pays the price but my god you couldn't blame the woman for that.
As for the entitled comment and looking far back, yes I know it started a long time ago but it started at a time when contraception wasn't available. Still don't like it personally but again on my opinion completely different to now a days when you have countless options to have sex without a baby.

Frazzledmum123 · 28/05/2018 17:11

I suppose a better way to explain is that in rape case a baby pays the price because of some evil done, and hopefully the man would pay too eventually.

Thehogfather · 28/05/2018 17:38

Not caught up yet but lass you misunderstood. I didn't say it was the only or even main reason. Nor do I disagree with it being about punishment etc.

However I don't believe that every adult alive who was aware of it thought that way. I'm certainly not excusing anyone, but every professional, the adoptive parents, etc weren't all exclusively in on it to punish. Nor do I think everyone alive at that time was rubbing their hands in glee at the suffering, adoption was considered something you could get over and therefore not too bad in the scheme of things.

Of course not denying that malice was the motivation for many involved, it just isn't logical to suggest that all of those who were alive at the time didn't speak out because they enjoyed the suffering.

GreenTulips · 28/05/2018 18:29

its complete fantasy

Nope it's not, in fact I told a friend on both occasions.

Xenia · 28/05/2018 18:34

If it's a baby, it's a baby, however it was conceived.

Frazzledmum123 · 29/05/2018 13:37

Totally xenia I completely agree and d ont agree with abortion in either way personally, it makes me desperately sad. But the original question was more about the morality of it and if someone had already had something horrendous, soul destroying, seriously evil happen to them then I can sympathise with them putting themselves first. Less so if they just wanted fun and couldn't be bothered to be responsible. Just my opinion

freezerfoodyum · 29/05/2018 13:52

I find it interesting frazzled that you think a woman with an abortion is "putting herself first". Having a baby when you are not ready for one and cannot provide for one is very selfish. And contrary to popular belief, being adopted is not all sunshine and roses either.