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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To assume if you are anti-abortion, you are...

431 replies

Hamandcheesebaguette · 26/05/2018 20:24

...pro a full, complete and comprehensive government benefits system to fund mothers for at least the first 5 years of her child's life?

I'll tell my story, it's not particularly interesting or traumatic, but had I not had access to a safe abortion at 6 weeks then I honest to god don't know how i would have not have ended up homeless or starving.

When I was 21, I met a man. Same age as me. I was working in an airport, leaving for work at 2.45am and usually not getting home until after 4pm. My take home pay was around £980 per month. After rent in my 1 bedroom flat in the cheapest (and also not particularly pleasant) area in my expensive city, council tax, topped up my gas and electricity meters and phone bill (I didn't even have a TV!) I had £35 left to eat and pay for buses to work for the rest of the month. After only knowing this man for 6 weeks, I found out I was pregnant. I was on the pill, maybe it failed, maybe I had missed a couple, I don't know.

Should I have had that baby... how in the hell would I have been able to provide anything for it on that wage? Oh wait, I wouldn't have had a wage at all bevause I wouldn't have had anybody to care for my baby whilst I was working full time and leaving for work in the middle of the night.

So I assume, if you are anti abortion, and I had had that baby, you also agree I should have been entitled to a reasonable council property (not covered in damp or mould or other H&S issues), my rent paid, my council tax paid, plus money provided for gas, electricity, food etc. Plus some furniture (as I always rented fully furnished and didn't have any furniture of my own at 21), a TV, broadband (or maybe I should have sat in with my baby with absolutely nothing except the walls to stare at...)

Plus possible full training paid for by the government when I could have gone back to work once this baby reached school age, as I wouldn't have been a very attractive job applicant by this point.

AIBU to assume this is tour stance if you insist I should have been forced to have been a mother when I didn't want to be one, couldn't afford to be one?

OP posts:
Pengggwn · 27/05/2018 18:34

Soubriquet

No, contraception is of course never guaranteed. That is why, from a strict pro-life perspective, the only option for someone who doesn't want to carry a child to term is abstinence.

Pengggwn · 27/05/2018 18:36

Or, I suppose, to be sterilised.

LassWiADelicateAir · 27/05/2018 18:41

I'm sure the Catholic church offers pastoral guidance on this aspect of married life.

I'm not a Catholic or anti- abortion so I have no need to check, but to claim there is no answer to what married people should do is a bit disingenuous.

As to contraception- the OP said she had been a bit lax, not being a bit lax would be a start.

Pengggwn · 27/05/2018 18:43

LassWiADelicateAir

I think the Catholic position would have been (at one point) marriage is purposed for the procreation of children, so there shouldn't be a question of being married but not wanting children (since it is the procreation angle that makes it okay to have all the sex).

A more pragmatic Catholic position would be: don't have sex.

Grin
JacquesHammer · 27/05/2018 18:45

Or, I suppose, to be sterilised

Which is nigh on impossible in some PCT

Pengggwn · 27/05/2018 18:46

JacquesHammer

I know. That's a whole different rights discussion, isn't it?

JacquesHammer · 27/05/2018 18:50

If it’s being used as a genuine suggestion as to what measures adults should take in order to “allow” them to have sex then I think it’s all part and parcel of the same rights discussion, namely why female reproductive health is so woefully poor.

Pengggwn · 27/05/2018 18:54

JacquesHammer

Fair enough. I support sterilisation on request anyway, at any age past 18.

LassWiADelicateAir · 27/05/2018 19:30

If it’s being used as a genuine suggestion as to what measures adults should take in order to “allow” them to have sex then I think it’s all part and parcel of the same rights discussion, namely why female reproductive health is so woefully poor

I don't think it was remotely being used in that way.

Is female reproductive health "woefully poor" ? I don't know if it is. The NHS were pretty hopeless .Or to be more accurate the female doctor in the Well Woman clinic was when I needed advice on heavy periods.- The private male consultant wasn't. There was no reason for the Well Woman doctor not to have given me the same advice as he did. So far as not getting pregnant I achieved that by the pill and condoms.

Female reproductive health in the health care industry is more concerned with infertility treatment but there are many contraceptive options available.

Anyway I think we have answered the question.

SalemBlackCat · 27/05/2018 19:43

IsMyUserNameRubbish Clearly you have never been pregnant to make such an utterly absurd statement. Even a teenager knows it is almost impossible to know you're pregnant before say 7 to 8 weeks, let alone 4. At 4 weeks, the embryo isn't even as big as a pinhead. You speak as someone who has absolutely no knowledge whatsoever of the human reproductive system. Your statement is ill-informed, irrational and unreasonable. NO ONE knows they are pregnant at 4 weeks.

JacquesHammer · 27/05/2018 19:50

I support sterilisation on request anyway, at any age past 18

I totally agree!

LassWiADelicateAir · 27/05/2018 19:52

NO ONE knows they are pregnant at 4 weeks

I did. I have only been pregnant once following from the only time I have had sex without using contraception. I tested the day after my period was due and it was positive. It was a Saturday afternoon. I remember it well. I knew there was a possibility I might be pregnant and I was going to what was likely to be a boozy party that evening. If I was pregnant I wouldn't drink.

HerMajestysSecret · 27/05/2018 20:19

There isn't an ideal solution, there never will be

There is actually. It's called contraception. belt and braces, two forms of contraception.

HerMajestysSecret · 27/05/2018 20:22

Should I therefore have to remain from having sex until I can be sure that I won't conceive?

Yes. Isn't it obvious?

HerMajestysSecret · 27/05/2018 20:23

salem you are wrong. Pregnancy tests are accurate from 4 weeks pregnant.

JacquesHammer · 27/05/2018 20:26

salem you are wrong. Pregnancy tests are accurate from 4 weeks pregnant

No. Pregnancy tests CAN be accurate from 4 weeks depending on a number of factors such as cycle length, length of luteal phase, hCG concentration.

LassWiADelicateAir · 27/05/2018 20:36

Well the NCT doesn't agree that pregnancy tests are only accurate from 4 weeks.

www.nct.org.uk/pregnancy/am-i-pregnant

The test I used that Saturday night almost 28 years ago was accurate at what was roughly 2 weeks from the date my son was conceived.

SensoryOverlord · 27/05/2018 20:37

Even a teenager knows it is almost impossible to know you're pregnant before say 7 to 8 weeks, let alone 4

🙄

I think you need to review your biology Salem.

At the point you miss your period, you are 4 weeks pregnant. Most pregnancy tests will fairly reliably pick up pregnancy hormones when your period is one day late. There are some that will give a positive result when you're 3 + weeks pregnant, a couple of days before your period.

I'm cringing for you tbh. Before you get all indignant and shouty you really should know some basic facts.

LassWiADelicateAir · 27/05/2018 20:43

Nor does the Mayo Clinic.

www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/getting-pregnant/in-depth/home-pregnancy-tests/art-20047940

When should I take a home pregnancy test?

Many home pregnancy tests claim to be accurate as early as the first day of a missed period — or even before. You're likely to get more accurate results, however, if you wait until after the first day of your missed period or, better yet, one week after your missed period

Given the fertile period is in the middle of the cycle and for the sake of argument the average cycle is 28 days both of these sites are saying a test would be accurate at the day of or within a week of a missed period. That would mean a test would be accurate at 14 -21 days from conception.

LassWiADelicateAir · 27/05/2018 20:46

At the point you miss your period, you are 4 weeks pregnant

Nope. In my case I tested on the day my period was due which was 2 weeks from the night I had unprotected sex. I could only have been 2 weeks pregnant.

SpitefulMidLifeAnimal · 27/05/2018 20:46

Even a teenager knows it is almost impossible to know you're pregnant before say 7 to 8 weeks, let alone 4

Oh don't be so ridiculous. I had a termination at 6 weeks. Found out I was pregnant at 5 weeks.

SpitefulMidLifeAnimal · 27/05/2018 20:47

Forgot to say, used a quid test from Superdrug.

LassWiADelicateAir · 27/05/2018 20:53

I think you need to review your biology Salem

At the point you miss your period, you are 4 weeks pregnant. Most pregnancy tests will fairly reliably pick up pregnancy hormones when your period is one day late. There are some that will give a positive result when you're 3 + weeks pregnant, a couple of days before your period.

I'm cringing for you tbh. Before you get all indignant and shouty you really should know some basic facts

I think you need to know some basic facts. For the sake of argument assume a 4 week cycle.

Out of those 28 days women are fertile generally only in the middle- so days 11 to 17. If you conceive on day 11 you will be just over 2 weeks pregnant by the missed date- if you conceive on day 17 you will be 11 days pregnant by the missed date.

To be 4 weeks pregnant by the missed date she would have had to conceive on day 1 of the cycle when she would not have been fertile.

Frazzledmum123 · 27/05/2018 20:56

Ok so I don't tend to comment on posts about abortion as i am, in the most part, very against it and aware my opinion is very unpopular and will be hit with criticism. But since you asked op I assume you genuinely want an answer from people like me? To know why I feel this way?

No I don't think the government should have to pay for a child you created because you created it, you. You had your fun, not even sure if you missed a few pills because hey, doesn't matter really? (I assume this is how you feel as it was such a flippant comment) It sucks that the man can walk away, it's shit but that's the facts and we can piss and moan about it or we can accept that we have to be the ones that take control of our future and if we choose to rely on birth control, we make sure we read the label and take it every fucking day. There are days printed on the back of the packet so it isn't difficult and there is the morning after pill if you do have a mistake (not ideal but I'm sure most people would agree better). There is the option of adoption too, yes I can only imagine how hard that would be but again, it is a situation you created and abortion to me is making the child pay for your mistake.
The thing is, I hate this entitled culture we have these days, the opinion you should be able to do whatever you want and someone else should sort it out if it goes wrong, you shouldn't have to adopt because it's too hard for YOU. Rape is entirely different, that person had no say, no control over what happened to them, they weren't reckless or expecting to have their fun without a consequence. I still hate the thought of abortion but rape is a whole other case. Same with if the mothers life is at risk in any way. I can even understand the argument for people who fall ill and so pregnancy is torture for some readon. I just can't the stand the argument of 'I didn't want it/couldn't afford it/ wasn't ready' because you had an option. I'm always dubious about those people who have 'accidents' too. Some case will be genuine but I have been sexually active for 18 years now and when I did go on to have kids, fell first time so it seems unlikely to me. I don't think people should only have sex if in a committed relationship as such but I do think you have to accept a pregnancy is a possibility. Again it sucks if you don't want one but you can't just go through life expecting all the good bits without taking responsibility for the possible outcomes. I want to quit a job I hate but I have to suck it up and continue because I want the good parts it offers. That's life I'm afraid

So there's my answer to you question, I fully expect you to hate me for it but you did ask

LassWiADelicateAir · 27/05/2018 20:57

At the point you miss your period, you are 4 weeks pregnant

That statement is so wrong. I think you might be confusing this with the fact midwives ask the date of your last period.

It defies all biology however to say that a woman will be 4 weeks pregnant at the date of the missed period.