My noisy kids in restaurants

[MrsMacron]

DH and I are at an utter stalemate on this issue.

We have 2 DS, 4 and 2. DH insists on going to 'fancy' restaurants for evening meals, although this isn't really ideal for the children. I'd prefer lunch times at more family friendly places but I compromise.

I try to avoid screens so I'll pack treats/ crayons/ stickers and chat with them, so although the kids are never loud ie never shout or scream,so they will chat at little kid volume which is higher than adult volume. E.g. Recently DS4 and I were chatting about swapping faces, he found it hilarious for some reason and started giggling loudly and describing his life as my mum.

DH got extremely angry at this lack of manners and stormed out. He feels at a nice restaurant to correct thing is to hand them an iPad each and let them be quiet so as not to disturb other diners.

I think the right thing (if we must go to fancy places) is to teach them to eat at nice restaurants by conversing with them, and diners would rather hear a 4 yo giggle a bit than listen to an entire meal of Peppa Pig, however low the volume.

AIBU? What would you rather hear?

[mathanxiety]

Selavy, I agree, this is a very UK reaction here.

[crispysausagerolls]

I always think it's very selfish of the parents when I see little children out for dinner - selfish to other diners but mostly selfish because it is past the little one's bedtimes and therefore unfair on them, and they never usually behave because they are exhausted, and probably bored. Yes, learning to eat out and behave out is important, and that's why taking them out for lunch is the best idea. It makes me sad when I see children glued to their screens at meals - the whole point of going to a restaurant is to learn how to behave. I am sure that children having to feel entertained 24/7 is going to be bad for them in the future, I remember being younger and just learning to sit quietly and listen to the adults speaking. Maybe it was boring but it's an important lesson to learn for board meetings and other fairly banal adult activities. I wish restaurants would ban phones and ipads (I also hate to see couples or friends out just looking at their phones the whole time).

[Sleeplikeasloth]

crispysausagerolls, why do you assume that all children have the same bedtime? Or that some can't be flexible enough to just sleep in later the next day?

Not every child goes to bed at 7.

[mathanxiety]

Seeing your last post, OP, I think your problem is not Peppa Pig or conversation.

Your problem is your H is a first class dick and a bully.

I urge you to repost this in Relationships with all of your posts amalgamated into one.

What is this horrible man like at home when it comes to parenting? Do you find yourself 'compromising' a lot?

[CaptainBrickbeard]

My parents took me and my siblings to restaurants loads in the 80s! A lot of my memories are of eating out, mostly revolving around ordering Death by Chocolate as dessert.

I’m not a fan of screens in restaurants generally but not opposed to their use ever at all. I think kids need to learn to sit and talk at mealtimes.

[crispysausagerolls]

Sleeplikeasloth

Most children of a similar age do have a similar bedtime - and even if it's not before 7, it's still presumably before when the meal finishes. In Europe where children sleep later they are noticeably far better behaved over dinner, so perhaps my assumption also comes from the behaviour I've seen at restaurants which indicates overtired children.

[crispysausagerolls]

zzzzz

See above re bedtime assumptions. Needing a table for sensory reasons is a completely different thing though, isn't it? It's essential support, not lazy parenting. I still think no colouring etc and talking to children is the best approach, but obviously them partaking in an activity eg colouring in is preferable to just staring watching a show. I don't think they are the same thing at all.

[Sleeplikeasloth]

crispysausagerolls, most do, but not all. I have friends whose children have stayed up for meals from a tiny age and behaved impeccably, and I have a one year old who I take out for evening meals quite happily, as they will just sleep in. It really is a very British thing to think children should be tucked up early. I didn't go to bed early, and I doubt my children will either.

[crispysausagerolls]

zzzzz

See above re bedtime assumptions - if I saw children behaving well out for dinner I wouldn't have an issue with it. Needing a table for sensory reasons is a completely different thing though, isn't it? It's essential support, not lazy parenting. I still think no colouring etc and talking to children is the best approach, but obviously them partaking in an activity eg colouring in is preferable to just staring watching a show. I don't think they are the same thing at all.

[crispysausagerolls]

Sleeplikeasloth

Sorry, computer froze and posted twice. My initial post was aimed at poorly behaved children at dinner, which are the only ones I have come across. If a child is behaving well then crack on/well done etc.

[themightycrayon]

Your children are at an age where family restaurants at lunchtime are a much more appropriate choice. If you absolutely must go to an expensive restaurant, asking ahead of time for a quiet table out of the way of other diners is the best (yet still very imperfect) way of handling it. You are correct that in general iPads and other electronics aren't really a developmentally-appropriate option after maybe the age of three.

[crispysausagerolls]

zzzzz

Have you RTFT? Most people on here are agreeing that lunchtime is the far more appropriate option for young children. Which I agree with. Don't know why you're getting such a bee in your bonnet but good luck to you

[PerfectlySymmetricalButtocks]

Read my post crispy, I take the DC when they've been going to bed late and sleeping in anyway, in the holidays.

[unlimiteddilutingjuice]

"The insane thing is that because DH is glowering at them for perceived 'bad manners' it makes them harder to manage. After he left, the owner came at the end of the meal to say the kids were lovely to have. On my own I've taken DS4 to proper fancy places without a seconds problem, but not at dinner and not with DH around!"

I know exactly what your talking about OP.

Your DH has imposed his own plans which make things difficult for you- because you have to keep the kids well behaved and entertained in a challenging environment.
Then he has set unreasonably high (and not at all age appropriate) expectations, which has made the whole thing even more stressful.
The he has stormed out when things (predicatably) didn't go exactly his way.
He has set you and the kids up to fail in order to cause a lot of drama.

I'm not at all surprised that the kids pick up on the stressy atmosphere and are harder that usual to manage. If you're going to eat out with kids- nice and relaxed, chatty and engaging is the way to go.
Not frowning at them across the table in anticipation of some slight infraction.

[rookiemere]

If I am in an expensive restaurant after 7 I don’t expect to be bothered by children making excessive noise. If the quiet is obtained by use of screen with headphones tbh I don’t really care as its not impacting on my meal.

If DCs are there but seated and making non-shrieky conversation with parents then great again my meal is not being disturbed, but I do feel in a posh restaurant after a certain time i’d really rather it was adults/ quiet teens only.

This relates to posh restaurants only if its Pizza Express then I expect noisy DCs no matter what time of day or evening.

[waterrat]

Your DP is weird. Why bother bringing them if you are plugging them into an ipad? Surely it would be far nicer to just enjoy the meal while they go to bed with a babysitter.

I would be delighted and impressed to see giggling and pleasant children at an evening meal. English culture is revoltingly unpleasant when it comes to children.

There is no logic at all to finding childrens giggles annoying - why are they more annoying than adult noise? I've eaten out late at night in Spain and the waiting staff love to see babies and children, it's beyond normal there -

In northern Spain I've seen children asleep with their head on the table at midnight while adults just chat around them - and other kids run around in the street or spin around on bar stools. There is literally no rule that adults would be out without kids - it's invented in our culture (which by the way is a massively drink soaked culture - wheras in Spain they drink far more sensibly because all ages are out)

Children are part of life - it's a completely modern invention that we say 'kids are not out past x o clock'

I hate these threads so much with all the miserable people who want silent boring miserable adult filled restaraunts. no surprise that the UK is one of the most anxious and depressed countries in Europe.

[orenisthenewblack]

You're DH is behaving much worse than your kids and I would seriously think about taking him out for a meal again.

But to answer your question, unless it's a really really a special occasion, your 2 and 4 yr old should be in bed for 7pm in my humble opinion.

[sockunicorn]

@MrsMacron I did it the exact way you say. We lived in the middle east (Dubai/Saudi etc) when my DDs were little so had not much choice in restaurants as everywhere near where we lived was very naice. We took them to the top end ones, I took a backpack of crayons and colouring and puzzle books everywhere and they got on with it. I didnt want to rely on screen time too much.

As a result by age 6 both girls had perfect table manners when out and understood what is and isnt acceptable. It was hard work at the time and A LOT of my meals spent colouring and entertaining rather than having my meal or adult chatting. But so so worth it for the fact I can now sit at celebration meals for hours and they entertain themselves and don't get bored! I also found the laughing and joking (if kept fairly quiet) used to make people smile and, more often that not, stop at our table to say how lovely and well behaved the girls were.

My 4year old niece lives in China however and it appears her aiyi just plonks her on the ipad as she runs round at meal times, screams, shout, throws food unless you hand her your phone. If she sees a phone as well (if youre taking a photo for example) she goes nuts until she gets it .