My noisy kids in restaurants

[MrsMacron]

DH and I are at an utter stalemate on this issue.

We have 2 DS, 4 and 2. DH insists on going to 'fancy' restaurants for evening meals, although this isn't really ideal for the children. I'd prefer lunch times at more family friendly places but I compromise.

I try to avoid screens so I'll pack treats/ crayons/ stickers and chat with them, so although the kids are never loud ie never shout or scream,so they will chat at little kid volume which is higher than adult volume. E.g. Recently DS4 and I were chatting about swapping faces, he found it hilarious for some reason and started giggling loudly and describing his life as my mum.

DH got extremely angry at this lack of manners and stormed out. He feels at a nice restaurant to correct thing is to hand them an iPad each and let them be quiet so as not to disturb other diners.

I think the right thing (if we must go to fancy places) is to teach them to eat at nice restaurants by conversing with them, and diners would rather hear a 4 yo giggle a bit than listen to an entire meal of Peppa Pig, however low the volume.

AIBU? What would you rather hear?

[shiklah]

We've always taken DC to restaurants - yes even very fancy ones. You go for the first sitting, take lots of quiet things to do and make sure they say please and thank you to everyone constantly. This results (in our experience) in free ice creams (loads of places but most notable for size and no of flavours JW steakhouse) , free magic show by the bus boy (Tatuu), being put in a cheese trolley and wheeled around like a charriot (gleneagles) and other assorted fun.

Make them practise being super polite, teach them to nicely ask for their own food (we have always had them order for themselves - very politely). Keep them seated, escort to the toilet holding hands and quietly pointing out 'look at the man carrying hot food, you need to make sure you don't get in his way' etc, clear up after them in the loos - no hand towels thrown on the floor and wee on the seat, don't hang around making a mess and a noise when you've finished - pay and let them turn the table. Soon enough you'll have DC who can eat out any where in the world, at any time and be greeted as cherished customers.

[Noqonterfi]

I dunno if you can get them to behave and talk quietly then there's no issue. If not bung them the iPad (with no sound). I used to use the iPad when the kids where little. I don't buy into this thing where people think they can't learn good table manners if you use screens when they are little. At 8 and 10 my DC are now an absolute joy to take out, they sit and chat quietly and there is no issue. You don't need to spend traumatic years of desperately trying to keep them quiet, they learn it when they are ready.

[Morningdash]

Well it depends on what you class as fancy really. I know people that class fancy as somewhere that is not a chain - so if its not a brewers fayre or sizzler it is fancy. I would class fancy as somewhere that doesn't have prices on the menu.

That said, your money is as good as anyone else's so as long as the kids are not running around and screaming then no it wouldn't bother me (although I do hate tablets at all at the table, same as phones) but honestly kids laughing is no more distracting than listening to someone who has had a few to many vinos and laughing loudly.

[HopeMumsnet]

Hi everyone!
We have made quite a few deletions here (tbf, the thought of Peppa Pig on a low hum from an adjacent table is quite nerve-shredding) and we'd prefer if this thread calmed down a bit now. Peace and love from now on would be great.

[DisturblinglyOrangeScrambleEgg]

It depends.

We eat out, and if it's an adult meal (ie we've gone out with adult friends) then I'm afraid we are of the 'hand out the ipads and headphones and leave them to it' - but then we can't get babysitters, so they have to come with us, and we wouldn't socialise otherwise - this way everyone's happy.

If it's a family meal, then no, no devices, and we'll talk to each other (mine are 4 and 7 - but they've been going to restaurants since babies) - and the restaurant might be Macdonalds, or might be some high end affair, depending on what we all decide we want to eat. DS1 also has a dodgy volume knob, but I remind him to talk at a normal volume, and since I can almost certainly hear other people talking, I'm really not going to expect them to sit there silent.

[TomRavenscroft]

I don't really like children, but I'm at how nasty some of you are being here.

A bit of giggling isn't a problem; frankly a lot of adults are much noisier and more annoying in restaurants than that! I'm thinking of times like when I went for a 'quiet' weeknight dinner and had to share a large communal table with a party of four who made loud whooping noises, smacked the table etc.

I agree that the right/nice thing is to teach children how to behave in 'grown-up'restaurants by going to them.

TBH your DH sounds like he needs to learn how to behave more than your kids do –he stormed out because of them giggling? Tell him to grow the fuck up.

pastures, the OP has clearly said she means 'not a chain restaurant, with tablecloths, so a bit nicer but not expensive', so not 'Michelin-star fancy', no, if you'd read her posts properly.

[DisturblinglyOrangeScrambleEgg]

Oh, and I HATE it when restaurants hand out bloody pencils and crayons. Because then I can guarantee a fight will break out over one colour, they'll be continually dropped on the floor, someone will reach over and spill their drink etc. Tablets over toys any day!

[MumofBoysx2]

I would say at that age they are young for sitting nicely at evening meals, only because they are probably tired. Most children that age eat quite a bit earlier. Your husband isn't being very practical! They would probably find it much easier at lunchtime. (having said that, talking and giggling are hardly antisocial behaviour). How about staying home for dinner and making more of family lunch times?

[Thewhale2903]

Tell your DH to get over himself and stop dicymtating life to suit himself. Life has changed now he has 2 young children. Sounds as though you do a good job of keeping the kids under control but he's not willing to help. Here is what I tell my partner when he gets the notion to go out somewhere fancy with kids "don't be so bloody rediculous". My children are not badly behaved bit they are children, they have no interest I fancy restaurants and they certainly don't want to sit for an hour and a half being told to be quiet and sit still equally the people around us don't want my children making a noise and annoying each other, that's how I feel when we do go nice places. I didn't leave my children with a baby sitter to listen to someone else's child

[Cath2907]

I have always taken my DD to eat where I eat. We are "up north" so no fancy London dining here! I'd happily take her to Pizza Express of an evening though or an Italian / Indian. I take her lunch or dinner and she behaves herself. She talks in a normal voice (albeit about minecraft or exploding bums) and we don't provide screens to distract her. It was important to me that she learned to join in normal human activities. she is 7 but we've been able to let her out in public since she was about 3! Prior to that it was Pizza Hut!

We do eat earlier though - she'd be too tired and hungry by 7. We started off at lunch / 5pm dinner times and have worked up. We don't normally sit down later than 6pm though.

Your husband sounds like an arse to be honest - stropping off! I see no reason your kids can't be in Pizza Express but maybe book a 5pm table not a 7pm one?

[Thewhale2903]

The problem in this instance is not your children who sound like perfectly normal well behaved children but your DH storming out and leaving you? They are his children too right

[PratRocket]

Children talking isn't an issue neither is giggling. Your dh sounds like a nob walking out on you after you went somewhere you didn't want to go!

If he saw a couple on a date laughing would he lose his shit too?

[KurriKurri]

I don't personally mind children chatting or laughing. I would hate to listen to an ipad even on low while I was having my meal. An expensive meal for me would be very rare treat, and I'd be upset if it was ruined by alot of raucousness or gadget noise from anyone - kids or adults.

I also think it is a bit unfair to expect such young children to cope with an evening meal - it is late and they will be tired.

Your Dh sounds veyr rigid in his thinking, does he actually ever try interacting witht he children, or does he leave you to keep them occupied while he enjoys his fancy meal ?

I would think as a general rule if a restaurant doesn;t have child friendly things on the menu or in the room, (high chairs, small portions, children's menu etc) then it doesn't view itself as a place for young children to go in the evening, which means that other customers probably assum eit will be child free too. (I mean very small children - obviously no problem children of about 8 and up eating out in the evening as they could cope and are less likely to get bored and restless.)

I think adults sometimes wrongly assume that because eating out is an 'activity' for them it is also one for children. For children eating dinner is a thing you do each day and when you've done it you can go back to doing more interesting stuff. Sitting at a table in a fancy restaurant is very dull for small children, and beyond their age capability in most cases.

[Cornishclio]

I think that at 4 and 2 that is a little young for taking out for meals in the evening and yes I agree with you that on any meal the ideal is for the adults to converse with the children. We did this one lunchtime with my 85 year old mum and stepdad and 2 year old granddaughter and the whole table ended up singing a version of heads, shoulders, knees and toes to keep the 2 year old occupied. A family friendly pub though.

I think it is very antisocial to take kids out and give them ipads to look at rather than converse with other people at the table. Tell your DH to organise a babysitter if he wants to eat out in the evening or do the family friendly places at lunchtime instead. Also he needs to learn how to talk to his kids and if he doesn't want to then again organise a babysitter.

[Sleeplikeasloth]

I can't see anything wrong with taking well behaved children out for a nice meal. We do it a fair amount with our 1 year old, and it's fine. But she is quite a quiet baby, and is very content to sit and graze food for an hour and a half, eats anything etc.

If going out for a meal means being so noisy it disturbs people or having to rely on Ipads, the I'd skip it for a bit, but it really depends on the character of the child/children.

I think we are are obsessed with early bedtimes for children in the UK. I much prefer the more continental approach which is more inclusive to children.

But again, it depends on the child/children. I know my child will just sleep in late after staying up late, and doesn't really do grouchy overtired, but if it would cause upset, it would be a different matter.

[Lethaldrizzle]

I hate screens in restaurants but if you do insist on them please use headphones!

[Shampooeeee]

Your DH didn’t model good restaurant behaviour by storming out mid- meal.
I don’t see any problem with children in restaurants in the evening. Toys over iPads any day of the week. Beeping and low volume kids’ programmes are awfully antisocial.
I would suggest choosing your restaurant wisely though. We recently went for a weekend away in a town we know well. There are two restaurants we love, similar prices, etc. One has a fancy vibe with a hushed dining room, the other is posh but rowdy. No competition now that we have a toddler in tow.

[LionAllMessy]

I don't really care what your children are doing tbh. If I wanted a meal in silence with nobody else around, I would hire a chef to cook at my house for me. Or just cook myself.

If I'm deliberately choosing to eat in a public place, I don't worry myself with what other people are doing in that public place.

[Passingwords]

OP you are not going to be able to teach manners to a child who should be asleep in bed. Your DH is barking, parenting is hard without making it harder. If he wants to teach nice manners sitting properly in a restaurant it has to be when the DCs are receptive. Stop going out at bedtime, it's as if he is deliberately trying to cause a rift, not one of you are enjoying it, neither are others customers if the DCs get loud. I am anit tablets in restaurants unless you have no option and a child cannot sit quietly

[Kaykay06]

I think perhaps you should think twice about taking your dh out for dinner as clearly he’s overtired and stroppy and should really get home for an early night.

Clearly he thinks discpline is your job, and teaching manners is also. When mine were that age (4&3 as a year between) we also had an 8 and 12 year old so we’d do lunch but never dinner as everyone was getting a bit cranky, and I don’t think it’s fair at 7-8 pm to those who come for a kid free dinner to be listening to my lot as 4 Boys wouldn’t be quiet enough even if they were trying to be. So for my sanity dinner was a no no.

Why can’t you save meals out in the eve for just you two, date night etc? Kids can learn table manners etc at lunch at the weekend, seems lots of pressure on you op. And no no tablets I hate them and in process of phasing them out of my house.

[GetOffTheTableMabel]

Children learn my watching the behaviour around them, especially that modelled by their parents. Your dh is teaching them that, if you don’t like what’s going on the table, then storming off is acceptable behaviour. It’s genuinely incoherent/stupid. You seem to be trying your best in unnecessarily difficult circumstances. There are plenty of ways he could compromise.

[Brownmouse]

I' don't rather hear laughing children than a husband storming out. Sounds horrible. That would ruin my evening.

[Tartyflette]

We often took DS out to eat in the evening from quite a young age (2-ish?) starting in Europe when we were on holiday.
Italy -- no problem at all. Ever. France - Even quite formal restaurtants can have a good Menu Enfant. I have fond memories of one in SW France - an auberge-type place (tablecloths etc) that offered a terrine starter with a little face made of olive slices and strips of pepper, followed by a lovely chicken and vegetable casserole, served with a mini potato pancake.
But DS was always a very good eater, reasonably well-behaved and didn't go to bed until about 9.30 pm. We were lucky, I know that. we're also foodies so it was important!
Nowadays I love to see children in restaurants enjoying the food and talking with the adults instead of everyone on their phones or tablets.

[TomRavenscroft]

We are "up north" so no fancy London dining here!
Yeah, there's no fancy restaurants north of the M25

I think perhaps you should think twice about taking your dh out for dinner as clearly he’s overtired and stroppy and should really get home for an early night.