To think men dressing up as women, is equivalent to blacking up?

[crunchymint]

Men dress up as women for a laugh. It is about laughing at a stereotype of a woman. In the same way a white person blacking up is enacting a stereotype of a black person. Both are wrong.

Errrr ... I see your sentiment but YABU.

I have a friend who says this and she makes a pretty convincing argument but I have seen drag acts that I’ve really enjoyed.

My gran used to really enjoy the Black and White Minstrel Show. It was still racist.

In a way, I see your point.
Women are an oppressed class. Men dressing as them for kicks is definitely...odd. But I'm not sure it's harmful.

I don't agree that dressing in women's clothes is to ridicule women.

But I do think that just putting on the clothing of the opposite sex does not turn you into that sex, any more than wearing black make up means you are then black.

If we’re talking drag, they don’t dress up as women. They dress up as drag queens. People who wear ‘women’s’ clothes but ID as male aren’t dressing up like women, they’re just wearing dresses/skirts etc. And trans women or AMAB non binary people aren’t men dressing up as anything.

Straight cis twats doing it as laddish banter though, like on stag nights, can fuck off though.

YANBU

I take your point and it’s possible I am just a bit brain washed. I just can’t seem to align the obvious derision of minstrel shows with drag.

'Blacking up' is this a term that people use?

YABU

YABU

Blacking up is absolutely a term - I’m amazed you’ve never heard it.

The problem with black face is the historical context. That context didn't exist when it comes to cross dressing so much. Let's put it this way. Only an ignorant person would be offended by a blacked up Morris dancer. This is because they don't understand why Black face is a bit off. The why is important.

You think drag queens don't ridicule women? You have never heard all the common references to fish in drag acts?

I struggle with some drag acts. I do think there is quite unpleasant female stereotyping in some of them. So I get the point you are making.

Drag would be a lot more palatable if all the blokes/characters didn't come across as such titanic twats.

I agree that some drag acts are horrid stereotypes of women. All the OTT bitchiness and sexualisation.

Hmmmm, it's a difficult one really.

Why do you think women do not dress up as men for comedic affect?
It is because men who have higher status dressing up as women who have lower status, has comedic impact. It is ridiculing that a man would dress up as someone with lower status.
Same concept with white people dressing up as a black person for comedic affect.

YABU - dresses, stockings, floral prints, make up, high heels, long flowing locks - none of these "belong" to women any more than trousers and dms "belong" to men. People can dress to suit themselves.

I totally agree OP and cannot understand why there is not more equivalence between racism/sexism, race hate/misogyny.

You should do some research into the social history of drag queens OP - they've been on the front line of fighting for the rights of women, gays and POC for decades.

YABU. Historically, women have had a bad time too, but how does it compare to slavery, segregation, the KKK, lynching, the disproportionate number of black men imprisoned and put to death in America, and shot by police, the disparity in wages, wealth and prospects, Moseley, Enoch Powell and the rivers of blood speech, Stephen Lawrence, to name a few examples?

Women were legally slaves in Britain until recently. They did not own any belongings, not even the clothes they wore, they could be legally beaten and raped by their Husband, they could be committed to an asylum by their male relative, and some women were sold in "bride markets".

When have drag queens ever fought for women? I can not think of one single example.

Loads of women are being murdered by their male partners all the time.

@JesusInTheCabbageVan
Really! Why don’t you look up the oppression of women properly.
I think the op is BU. But still, to say that what some minorities have endured is less bad than other minorities is a load of rubbish.

It’s similar in that performing stereotypes of a class of people reinforces those stereotypes. And in both cases it isn’t positive stereotypes being performed, I’ve never heard or read a convincing argument for drag acts, to me they seem to be one of the worst examples of misogyny passed off as entertainment. I find both drag and black face abhorrent, and I was shocked that so many of my colleagues love that Ru Paul show. Blacking up is no longer socially acceptable, I hope in time drag is viewed the same way.