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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think men dressing up as women, is equivalent to blacking up?

108 replies

crunchymint · 21/05/2018 18:25

Men dress up as women for a laugh. It is about laughing at a stereotype of a woman. In the same way a white person blacking up is enacting a stereotype of a black person. Both are wrong.

OP posts:
DN4GeekinDerby · 21/05/2018 22:46

Blackface was and is used to mock and dehumanize black people. Drag was and is used to play with and mock gender roles, most commonly by gay people of both sexes to bring people together, not to dehumanize people. I get some people don't like it, but really I don't see 'women' as the focus of most drag queen acts, I see hyperfemininity. I very much do not see those as the same.

Yes, some drag queens mock women and some drag kings mock men, some are incredibly sexist and I get despising individuals or how the commercialization of it does seem to hinge on that aspect over good characters and play which has turned me away from some of it, and I can certainly see the issues others have raised when random guys do it to embarrass each other, but that doesn't erase the history and the value drag shows have had for some of us and I do not think it's comparable to blackface or redface or yellowface. Race isn't the same as gender roles. There is nothing within race that is a seperate characteristic. We should all be able to laugh at gender roles, even more when taken to an absurd but logical extreme, and use it to discuss them.

I find it kinda odd, actually, how both certain groups of TRAs and certain groups of feminists seem to have it out for drag. Would it really be better if we didn't publically play with those roles? Must we take gender very seriously now and never use those roles or discuss them in a way that others might find funny? A little sunshine and laughter can expose a lot.

There are plenty of women who use masculine stereotypes and dress for comedy and other forms of entertainment. It can be good fun and a good laugh. The last ones I saw were at events run by women's groups. Most drag shows are tiny amateur affairs so
I'm not surprised many haven't seen good drag at all let alone drag kings and really, I know it's not everyone's cup of tea. And really, if we're going to view it as part of patriarchy, drag kings have a far harder task as femininity is just a lot easier to make look ridiculous with how culturally restrictive, the pain in the ass maintanance of it, and just weird elements that are even easier to see how ridiculous they are on a guy who isn't expected to conform to them and drag kings are less likely to get mainstream as some drag queens have because it's women in a masculine role and, in my opinion, often looking way better while they play with hypermasculinity than many men do and make fun of traits viewed as masculine. I get why some men wouldn't want more women doing and enjoying that.

So yeah, I know I'm biased, I enjoy it, and I know some people are assholes about it and when doing it, but I think messing about and having a laugh at gender roles can be great fun and not inherently equivalent to blacking up.

crunchymint · 21/05/2018 23:02

I have seen lots of drag shows including Lily Savage when he was starting out. They have all been misogynistic to various degrees. And they absolutely take the piss out of women and often women's genitals. Of course what you see on TV will be watered down.

OP posts:
bridgetoc · 21/05/2018 23:09

More pathetic snowflakery on Mumsnet. Grin

KERALA1 · 22/05/2018 07:01

Why is it snowflake behaviour? Seems a reasonable position to hold o me. No one is banning it but surely women are entitled to not like and reject some forms of entertainment? Drag always made me abit uncomfortable even as a child remember not liking the drag bits of panto. I instinctively knew it felt like an attack on women before I was old enough to understand the issues and context.

Juells · 22/05/2018 07:08

@bridgetoc
More pathetic snowflakery on Mumsnet.

More pathetic trotting out of the word 'snowflake' to describe anyone who holds a different opinion.

As for drag acts being on the front line fighting for the rights of women... would you give us a fucking break. Hmm

hoistTheSales · 22/05/2018 07:36

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Juells · 22/05/2018 19:36

I'm amazed at how some people don't know when they're having the piss taken out of them, and laugh while being insulted RIGHT TO THEIR FUCKING FACE 🤣

hazyhazza · 22/05/2018 19:44

Equivalent you say? Right.

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