Not picked to help on school trip - again. Do I ask why?

[sayhellotothelittlefella]

This might be longer than the actual subject warrants but I want to put as much as I can in the OP so there’s no drip feeding and to explain my strong feelings.
So yet again I’ve offered to help on DS’ school trip and yet again I haven’t been chosen. Last time I wasn’t picked I did phone up and ask if my DBS was still current as I hadn’t been picked to help for several years. I suppose it was a bit obvious this was a roundabout way of asking why I wasn’t able to help - only to be told they didn’t have the reply slip with my offer of help but I would be 1st on the reserve list and next time make sure the letter was back on time and there wouldn’t be a problem. Not so. Last thing on Friday the volunteers list came out ( anything vaguely contentious always gets sent out at 3:15 on Friday) and it’s the SAME few names as it is every trip and has been for years ( even the mums themselves say they always get to go). Normally wouldn’t bother me but with my older DC we made a lot of effort to help with one trip for each of them - DH would take a day off work to watch the younger DC so I could go.
There is a bit of back story with the school but it would derail this thread to go into it - suffice it to say they have no grounds to not pick me. There were no issues when I helped previously, it’s different teaching staff anyway, I give a lot of time to the PTA and the other schools my DC attend have a VERY favourable attitude towards our family. This school is renowned for having favourites. It’s the same with the pupils - always the same few families who’s DC get to do everything. I don’t know how to pitch this really and am genuinely looking for advice and a different perspective. So AIBU to go in tomorrow and ask why I’m still not picked, why is it the same people ( others do also offer) and that after such a long time it’s getting harder to pretend it’s not personal?

Long time teacher here. shinywhiteteeth has it spot on.

I’m very picky who I have on trips. It’s a teachers’ worst nightmare and lots of responsibility. If we aren’t 100% certain about someone we don’t ask them.

Some key reasons why people don’t get asked: can’t get own children to school on time or picked up on time, don’t do basic organisational things that school life requires eg provide PE kit for own children, return forms on time, appear gossipy and possibly likely to not respect confidentiality, generally seem a bit dizzy about life so won’t be able to follow trip protocols.

sayhello, your update sounds much saner and more chilled than your OP

Your DS will not remember whether/what for/how much you volunteered. Or he might remember but not care.

It's a bit like the whole FF vs BFing questions - seems All Important at the time, and nobody in the whole wide world once grown up cares one JOT how their mother fed them at a time that they cannot remember

@Bunnyfuller yes I do. I have a major role in pta because there wasn’t a single person that stepped to do it. I also did reading, helped in a classroom ( both quite a while ago ). Plenty of other stuff as well that teachers wouldn’t be aware of. I have helped walk children up to swimming lessons a good few times as well. This is over a very long period of time so I’m not always in their face. When it was brought up about the same people helping all the time ( by others - as I said it’s v noticeable ) the reason given was that these were the parents that volunteered. Now I know that that’s not the case and I suspect there are others like me.

My neighbour never gets picked....she feels it's the popular mums every time.

My DS has ASD & ADHD and so I've been invited to go with them on several trips over the years to keep an eye on him. He's always in a group (obviously) and so it means that I have an opportunity to see how he and the other children communicate and get on with each other. There hasn't been a trip that I've not enjoyed and it's allowed us to talk about the trip together and I also have some street cred with a few friends of the children for introducing them to the thrill of tickling your friend with a dead nettle! It also gives me an opportunity to speak to his TA and see how they interact with him/manage his behaviour which has been more useful that all the meetings that we have had!

I love museums and stately homes and have learnt so much on the school trips I've been on with DS and love how we talk about it together afterwards.

I'm sure as your son goes through school there will be other ways in which you can be involved to show your support. Do you tell him that you've not been picked? Could you ask the teacher if there's something else you could do if they've got trips covered?

Also, I wonder if you and your husband speaking to DS about why you've decided to keep him at that school would help him to feel less "abandoned"?

I think it's the fact that you're involved with the PTA, help with reading etc so seem invested and supportive of the school yet you've removed your children from it and that sends a clear message. I would worry that you'd be looking for more reasons to distrust the school and couldn't relax on the trip, worrying that you were critising and comparing unfavourable to your 'new' school. From what you've said, that's obviously not your position but I'm sure you can see how it might be interpreted that way. I want parents helpers who can be trusted and I wouldn't trust you.

Why are your family viewed as VERY favourable?! Are you wondering why the other school doesnt see you as such?

I put my hand up here. I never chose Parent A and B again after the trip to the seaside when they suddenly disappeared with their children, leaving the rest of their group , and it transpired they had gone to sit in a pub garden for a drink. I am happy to report they were also over half an hour late back for the coach so we left them behind. 1 I also declined Parent Cs kind offers to help after the theatre trip when she "kindly" bought interval icecreams for the four children in her group despite having been expressly told not to when she asked if she could. And Parent D, who fed her group sweets constantly, and Parent E who kept nipping off for a ciggy leaving his group with no adult supervision, and Parent F who didn't say one word to any of the other children in her group ( specially chosen for their loveliness as she was new to the school) but only spoke to her own child.
But I also had lovely parents, who made sure the children in their group had brilliant days out, were amazingly good at dealing with stuck earrings, and were truly wonderful at dealing with multiple speedo swimming hats .

Would it be worth suggesting a rotation for parent volunteers? So priority given to those who didn't go on the previous trip? Teachers would go do it difficult to argue with that.

Have you ever thought that the parents who get chosen all the time are only chosen because their kids are misbehaving twats

What rot. IME, it's the well behaved children whose parents attend the trips. The parents of the badly behaved children barely show their faces from one year to the next. After seeing some of the behaviour, I'd be too embarrassed to turn up much either.

If a child is that badly behaved that they specifically need their parent along to manage them, then maybe they shouldn't be on the trip in the first place.

I'm with a PP who said teachers NEVER pull names from a hat, despite what they might say, they take who will be useful and reliable on the trip. Try to to give it too much headspace op, I doubt it's personal.

@chavtasticfirebanger - what I mean is that our family has a good reputation at the other schools. The teachers tell us they appreciate us being supportive parents ie if they have to speak to us about an issue with a DC. As I said I have a lot of children and staff will often say My DC are so good/polite they don’t know how I do it. They also say that I am not one these deluded parents that make a fuss over nothing and ‘refuse to believe precious Annabelle could do such a thing’ My eldest DC’s tutor told me she said at the dinner table to her DC if you grow up as nice as the sayhello’s then I’d be very happy.
I think I know why the school doesn’t view us as such. We removed a DD and didn’t send our DS there for such a reasonable family to do this means other people will clearly think we have a valid point. It is probable that a narrative of me being a trouble maker suits them far better. I see now it is also likely as a pp stated they are afraid of comparison.

That being said - I’m over it ( until next time obvs)

Ah the Mummy Mafia! I didn’t try to dare inveigle myself into it and spent my dd’s Primary years avoiding them all. Bliss.

When I have helped on trips I barely see my own DC as am so busy trying to make sure all the kids are safe and not sure chatting with my own DC . But I have noticed lots of parents just hold their own DC hand and see it as their time together.
Also I have noticed the badly behaved kids parents are often picked along with parents who dont gossip or hang round the playground for hours.
I wouldn't worry about it, the kids won't care if you are there or not as they will be too busy. You can still talk about it afterwards?

It may be a blessing in disguise! This Twitter thread shows the other side of volunteering in trips (warning very sweary, but funny) trip [[https://twitter.com/simonfromharlow/status/998470432176123904?s=21]]

Have you ever thought that the parents who get chosen all the time are only chosen because their kids are misbehaving twats

Absolutely not true!

I'm with a PP who said teachers NEVER pull names from a hat

You're right, we don't. What I do is get a list of DBS checked parents, then start phoning! Some parents do get asked more regularly than others, mainly because they have been on other trips, and it does help if the teacher knows they are more likely to be able to come (for example, they don't work, so are more likely to be free).

Pals who are teachers have stories of amusingly badly behaved parents on school trips....these ones stick in my memory, a parent helper disappeared while supervising all kids eating sarnies in the British museum picnic area.... Turns out she's picked up a hottie...and shags him in disabled loo.
Another helper openingly smoking a spliff while waiting for remaining groups to reappeaer.

A married couple who were looking after a gcse trip to Barcelona... Mid way through she finds out he's been having an affair with the accompanying teacher.... That sounded fun

Overall many say they want reliable folk and ones they know and like... As one pal said as teachers they spend so much time alone, that the chance to have some more adults around is brilliant.... You can kind of see why they would pick those they liked and knew!

it was the advice we got from our LA when I was a headteacher. Their view (taken from the legal dept) was that a parent could not be given responsibility for other children in a group which contained their own child, as that parent would naturally (even if unconsciously) prioritise their own child's welfare. They told us that were we to put a parent in such a position and something happened to another child, we would be potentially seen to be negligent with regard to supervision

And on the other side of that it's actually highly unfair on a child to have their parent as their group leader. In that circumstance we all hold our own kids to much higher standards than the others in the group.

I have declined help over the years from a few parents who've given their child a row post session (on one occasion even having the child make a sorry card) for small things that would never, ever have been reported to the parent of another child. Children should not be penalised because their parent can/does help out.

This is a very complicated and opinionated thread. I was on many trips with dc. I bonked heads with many teachers bc ds is dyslexic which doesn't mean poor test scores to hurt the school or that he's stupid.
From what I noticed, there was a list and the teacher went down the list. So every parent was used.

I think it's useful to go on trips bc you can see the class dynamics and understand where your dc fits in.

Fwiw, to teachers, we often had a parental group leader but any parent who wished to join the trip also came along and that helped bc there were extra eyes and ears. Teachers made the groups so that helped keep disruptors apart.

The one time I didn't go, dd was mugged at the zoo by a large crazy person who tried to take her stuffed toy that she and her group of friends had all purchased.
When i asked, no parents or teachers had noticed and thought she was causing trouble bc she was upset. She was a shy girl who rarely complained! Thankfully, her friends grouped around her when they returned and he was still there. How do you NOT NOTICE a large unkempt stranger tugging on a child's toy while standing in line for a train ride in a zoo?

The more parents the better! She needed one of the over protective parents and not one noticed her.

I never played favorites. Included all children and my dc and friends and their parents were happy I was there...i suppose bc i didn't allow muggings!

I think it's useful to go on trips bc you can see the class dynamics and understand where your dc fits in.
That is absolutely NOT the purpose of parent helpers - to essentially spy on the class for their own ends.
And another reason why my school doesn't allow parent helpers on trips OR to help in their own child's classroom.

I go on trips but never with my child's class as the school doesn't like to send you with your own child. I have been on 4 this year but that's because I don't work and am reliable and they know I am normally available (sometimes at short notice).

And the school picks from a group of dbs checked volunteers so the trips aren't put out to every parent

I'm just gobsmacked that your school has enough volunteers to choose who goes!