to feel undermined by colleague

[boilerhouse2007]

I am a secondary school teacher, anyway there is this young colleague who is in the next room to me and yea she is lovely to the kids, something that just is not in my personality as much and this is a tough secondary school. Anyway, yesterday i was taking a troublesome girl down to my class for detention when the girl started walking and half ignoring me. I told her to come back and colleague appears in front of the boss and uses her soft voice to get the girl back when i wanted to handle it myself. This was all in front of boss too who was in earshot and i was so angry at her interference as i have had words with this colleague before over her interference buut do not want any more conflict and i just felt she stepped in. What do you think?

''This has now taken a personal and nasty turn. ''

often threads on mn do if you look and the op gets slated.

''Op, the point I was getting at was that people respond well to someone who listens and offers support and will say thank you.
'Perhaps I was one of the ‘good cops’ or “appeasers” on the thread as I listened to you and responded instead of throwing criticism you way which was by no means helpful.
This may have been what you consider a “soft approach” in your colleagues, but you found it helpful. That is what I meant, although I admit I wasn’t particularly clear and expected you to join the dots.''

yes very good point but with me it just seems the kids never respond as well to me as they do her, they will constantly challenge every instruction, i have tried the be nice approach but for me it fails, i cannot pull it off like her. As another poster said you can do and say the exact same thing as teacher x but it lands differently-the student can choose how they react. As i said too, it is her manner-very soft voice and her physical appearance that helps alot. I just do not have them resources.

katiekittens I think your approach could have been an incredibly valuable learning opportunity for OP - when OP responded positively to a softer approach from you. Clearly he can't see the irony of the fact that when people respond more stridently to him in response to his combativeness and 'sharpness' he doesn't like it - that should be a lesson right there. But pupils are apparently a whole other class of people with different rules of engagement.

Personally, I've learned (not only from experience but from wide reading) that children model behaviour and therefore as adults it is down to us to model good behaviour. So the way we talk to people, the tone etc is as important with a work colleague as it is with one of your pupils.

OP I did not accuse you of being on the edge of physically assaulting a pupil (I certainly hope you're not but you do actually sound like you have a lot of pent-up aggression and it reminded me starkly of my DDs teacher at school). I was giving an example of a (poor) teacher I personally know about and positing whether you come across the same to your students ever - again, this is the feedback and thought that you keep saying you want (but then reject out of hand for any number of reasons). And no, whilst my DD can be bit too chatty in class as many teen girls can she is desperate to learn and has been brought up to be polite and to work hard. It is sad that your default assumption is 'it must be the pupil who's in the wrong'.

''Let's not be naive either, students 'take to' some teachers, if the teachers are bothered about students perceiving them to be 'cool'. You could be doing and saying exactly the same as another teacher but it 'lands' differently. That is the way it is.''

excellent post-yep, and this is the big problem. It is like i say something and it is ignored, she says /does the same thing and it is instantly heeded. That is what is so frustrating.

''Clearly he can't see the irony of the fact that when people respond more stridently to him in response to his combativeness and 'sharpness' he doesn't like it - that should be a lesson right there. But pupils are apparently a whole other class of people with different rules of engagement. ''

yes i said i did acknowledge it id you read the posts.

'' I was giving an example of a (poor) teacher I personally know about and positing whether you come across the same to your students ever - again, this is the feedback and thought that you keep saying you want (but then reject out of hand for any number of reasons). And no, whilst my DD can be bit too chatty in class as many teen girls can she is desperate to learn and has been brought up to be polite and to work hard. It is sad that your default assumption is 'it must be the pupil who's in the wrong'.''

And it is sad that your default assumption is that this teacher is automatically in the wrong. Sometimes teachers who struggle with behaviour are ones SLT will not support, plus children will and do target members of staff. They will act up somewhere then go home and act like it is all the teacher's fault when they themselves are likely acting up. No teacher is going to sit going mad like that every class unless they are pushed. Use your logic here and i have said that i have used to softie approach but it lands differently, kids will react better to a young attractive soft spoken female than a overweight middle aged guy. I used my normal tone when addressing that child yesterday-there was no shouting or anything. I am sorry but you just seem desperate to attack me and find fault just like you do with that teacher in your dds school. I was raised to be polite too, did not mean i did not act up in school. You sound like a parent who thinks their child can do no wrong.

kids will react better to a young attractive soft spoken female than a overweight middle aged guy

This is utter nonesense. Stop blaming your lack of success at building relationships with young people on your age, weight or sex. Or your accent!!

You can either choose to do something about your attitudes to students, or you can choose to continue as you are.

''Stop blaming your lack of success at building relationships with young people on your age, weight or sex. Or your accent!!''

this was a very difficult student who there has being much intervention between slt with, the other colleague does not even know her so it's not like they had a relationship. Other colleague and me were saying exact same thing except other colleague is much softer in talking.She win because her tone is softer.

This person is clearly not a teacher. There are a fair few teacher bashing threads, could this be one in disguise?

Also your partner may be good in the classroom but he clearly is bad at choosing a woman with trash like you

''This person is clearly not a teacher. There are a fair few teacher bashing threads, could this be one in disguise?''

ok and please clearly elaborate here...

It’s not about winning OP.

it's called stepping up to the mark, the poster had clearly insulted and heckled me so i was being the pig she was making out i was.

There is a difference between relaxing spa rules when posting on a forum and making the odd typo, and writing in an incoherent garbled manner. I struggle to believe any qualified teacher would write like this. Every week there is a new teacher bashing thread on here.

''It’s not about winning OP.

sad''

it is though, teachers have to play the game were students will respect them, she went and win in my face. To undermine a teacher in front of a student when you have not being asked diminishes the teacher and they stand a harder wall to get over the next time.

it is though, teachers have to play the game were students will respect them, she went and win in my face

If you actually think this, you should absolutely leave teaching. Young people deserve better than this.

Stealth I think you might be right. I hope so, anyway.

''If you actually think this, you should absolutely leave teaching. Young people deserve better than this.''

ok and why am i so terrible for wanting to have my own authority? Please explain that.

Feel for you OP.
Teaching is one of those jobs where you are totally exposed to the random, throwaway interventions of others which leave you cut to the bone.
It really is like being on Britain's got Talent every working hour of every working day.
Every numbskull is entitled to an opinion on what you do and how you do it and none of them hold back.

Have you thought about trying to work with an older age range where you can be a little bit freer of the 'kids' issues in teaching and consequently the manipulation that's enabled this issue with the other teacher?

I used to teach 18+ age range, sometimes 16+ but only rarely, and once years ago, agreed to do a 2 week summer school with 12-14 year olds.

It absolutely destroyed me and I left there with my confidence shot feeling that teaching in that age range had absolutely nothing to do with subject knowledge (or very little) and everything to do with crowd/child control skills.

There's always someone who has a gift or a natural way with kids which is great but it kills you if you haven't got it and I don't think it's something you can get either.
It's a small comfort but I suspect when your colleague hits 40 (maybe long before) - she won't still have it either!

When you're young and idealistic, you can idealise and put the 'kids' at the centre of everything. Everyone loves being made to feel important and some teachers hit that note with some kids some of the time. I think they can do it more when young but you lose the energy as you age and the job sucks the juice out of you.

What about looking at FE or training teachers? It could really make the next 20 years a lot more interesting - maybe even tolerable! ;-)

And just to prove it I deliberately inserted a typo ;) spa rules

''There's always someone who has a gift or a natural way with kids which is great but it kills you if you haven't got it and I don't think it's something you can get either. ''

yea i find that too, it just puts you off,kills your confidence.

Because it isn’t about playing the game. It’s about understanding children’s behaviours and barriers. It’s about dealing with every situation from a place of firm, boundaried compassion - a base of liking the children you teach. It’s about not allowing your own feelings to cloud your interactions. It’s about being open to other ways of doing things - of learning from skilled colleagues.

''Teaching is one of those jobs where you are totally exposed to the random, throwaway interventions of others which leave you cut to the bone.
It really is like being on Britain's got Talent every working hour of every working day.
Every numbskull is entitled to an opinion on what you do and how you do it and none of them hold back.''

this. yes i find it draining too how every teacher contradicts each other on how to handle a situation.

''It’s about being open to other ways of doing things - of learning from skilled colleagues.''

but in this case i said the exact same thing as her, she has a way. I think you do not get that some ppl just have a natural way about them and as the poster above me said you cannot acquire this.

are you saying skills can't be learned

not all about skills, some people just have that presence that kids will immediately comply with.

and smileeachday i really thought you were nice until you made that dig at me earlier about hoping i was not a teacher, maybe you want to practice what you preach yourself and be compassionate?

People often reminisce about their favourite teacher and when I think back, and I suspect it's the same for many others, my favourite teachers were the ones who made 'me' feel special.

Now, realistically, no teacher can make all the kids feel special all of the time but some have just got that X-factor - 99% of teachers haven't got it - it doesn't mean they shouldn't be teachers.

Some parents are good, many parents are bad and most are probably just okay. Some beat themselves up about their bad parenting, but many don't care one way or the other but they'll happily have a pop at you for not getting their kids to do the things they can't get their kids to do.

Sometimes these things are a sign. Maybe 10 year ago this issue wouldn't have bothered you in the same way. You'd take it in your stride.

I do agree with you that what she did was undermining - especially given you'd already spoken about the same issue before.

But maybe you should be saying the way this is making me feel is going to take a toll on me and I need to not let that happen.

I need to look on this as myself/my body/my senses telling me I need to put my life before all of this nonsense and look to doing something that doesn't make me feel crap.

Like I suggested earlier, I think you'd probably find teaching adults a revelation - people who want to learn and don't play games - it'd be like being able to do what you're paid to do, what you want to do, what you can do.