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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to feel undermined by colleague

271 replies

boilerhouse2007 · 19/05/2018 08:14

I am a secondary school teacher, anyway there is this young colleague who is in the next room to me and yea she is lovely to the kids, something that just is not in my personality as much and this is a tough secondary school. Anyway, yesterday i was taking a troublesome girl down to my class for detention when the girl started walking and half ignoring me. I told her to come back and colleague appears in front of the boss and uses her soft voice to get the girl back when i wanted to handle it myself. This was all in front of boss too who was in earshot and i was so angry at her interference as i have had words with this colleague before over her interference buut do not want any more conflict and i just felt she stepped in. What do you think?

OP posts:
Original poster
boilerhouse2007 · 19/05/2018 12:34

smileeachday where do u teach? primarary or secondary and is it tough?

OP posts:
SmileEachDay · 19/05/2018 12:39

Secondary, inner city.

Original poster
boilerhouse2007 · 19/05/2018 12:44

see reading this here and i have tried these- sometimes they do not work.

OP posts:
SmileEachDay · 19/05/2018 12:51

Children are people. No strategy works 100% of the time - but the strategies in that link stop you adding your emotion to the situation, which can only be a good think.
Helps if the children know you like them, too.

wildbhoysmama · 19/05/2018 12:52

OP I work in a tough school IN Glasgow, we all (mainly) have Glasgow accents but have a variety of ways that work: Some are quiet and gentle, some are funny, some are very strict, but very few are shouty, it tends not to work. Personally,I have a big personality and use a combination of humour and showing care for the pupils, but, again, without shouting. I do give clear direction and clear expectations of how they should conduct themselves and have learner conversations about this, discussing what happens if they choose not to. Calm is the way to go.

Of course, this is all with supportive SMT, which is crucial.

The head of dept/ boss as you say should have worked with you to turn the situation round if he/ she was there as you say.

You can't think of all inservice/ training as useless, it isn't. I attended one recently called ' All behaviour is communication' - it was excellent as it addressed barriers to learning and why these pupils may act/ react the way they do.

I'm 20+ years in the job and still love it. If you don't it's a bloody, hard shift. If the kids think you like them it's most of the battle. Please don't make yourself ill with stress.

lhastingsmua · 19/05/2018 12:55

You sound like you're undermining her as she’s young!

Let’s be honest, she gets results where you can’t, and she clearly has the respect of the pupils where you don’t

Original poster
boilerhouse2007 · 19/05/2018 12:55

''OP I work in a tough school IN Glasgow, we all (mainly) have Glasgow accents but have a variety of ways that work:''

yes it is different though when you are in england, 100s of miles away and the accent sounds pure foreign and tough and aggressive to the kids [a males voice too], when the kids speak the accent themselves they know you are not being aggressive.

OP posts:
Original poster
boilerhouse2007 · 19/05/2018 12:59

''Let’s be honest, she gets results where you can’t, and she clearly has the respect of the pupils where you don’t''

yep and i clearly said that she is better than me in around 10 posts already so you a bit late to get in there with your knife when nobody criticizes me more than i criticize myself....
Also addressed that an older colleague [in his late 50s] did the exact same thing in our dept 2 years ago and greatly annoyed staff over it so no it's not an age thing...

OP posts:
SmileEachDay · 19/05/2018 13:12

What is it you want from this thread, OP?

Original poster
boilerhouse2007 · 19/05/2018 13:15

mmm if you look at my op it clearly said wibu to be angry at colleague but we have gone in a new direction...

OP posts:
SmileEachDay · 19/05/2018 13:16

Ok.

Yes, you are.

wildbhoysmama · 19/05/2018 13:17

I know what you mean -I taught in Australia years ago and they all.thought, at first, I was mental! Unfortunately, we still have that 'No Mean City' reputation. However, after they got to know me they sort of forgot about that. Honestly, they did, even the Greek/ Somali wide boys (my knowledge of football helped there a bit, though and getting involved in lunchtime clubs).
Like I say, have you tried humour/ giving them a bit of you ( chatting about family / past experiences) that works for me: All three of my boys have been into school when they were little, even now, for social things /sport/ shows and the kids see you as human then.

Try and stay calm best you can. I know it's not easy, but the worst thing that could happen is that you become more stressed/ unhappy/ resentful and things just spiral then in work and at home.

Can you speak to your HofD about more support?

Original poster
boilerhouse2007 · 19/05/2018 13:17

ok well i cannot disagree with you on that as other posters have confirmed they feel the same so we will agree to disagree.

OP posts:
Original poster
boilerhouse2007 · 19/05/2018 13:27

''Can you speak to your HofD about more support?''

i have but i have much stronger colleagues and so the more i address it the weaker i look.

OP posts:
DoinItForTheKids · 19/05/2018 13:42

Ok boilerhouse, you are resistant, argumentative and antagonistic in your responses on this thread which is COMPLETELT unnecessary. If you are like this with these pupils, no wonder your colleague felt she needed to step in.

You're responding with a defensive attitude and little grace.

You can either take the comments on board which are acknowledging the issue you'e stated and your own admission that you can't do what she does but seem unable to accept that people think you are being unreasonable in how you viewed her intervention. You can ignore the thoughts and comments which challenge your own view or take something from them and that's your choice entirely.

My DD has a teacher like you in her school. I feel he is a hair's breadth away from clocking a pupil he's that wound up in lessons and conducts daily verbal tirades on the whole class which achieve absolutely nothing but wasting 10 minutes in every lesson. He makes unnecessarily nasty comments, personal comments, inappropriately aggressive comments to my DD and other pupils in the class. I find it COMPLETELY inappropriate and he sounds totally out of his depth - which is worrying for like you, he is a mature teacher with years and years of experience. But apparently no self awareness or emotional intelligence. He is inappropriate in how he talks to pupils whilst you just seem unaware that if you changed your words maybe only slightly, you would come across better and get a better response.

You say:
well frankly it is the only thing that works with these kids-what should you think a middle aged bloke in his 40s with a heavy Glasgow accent should have handled this?

I would say put your attitude back in its box, accept that several PPs find the comment you made to the pupil wasn't the best, and sort it out - or don't. If you cannot accept anything on here other than 'you're really hard done to mate' then you'll get no value from the thread. I personally don't appreciate your combative responses to a post which I made which was pretty calm and considered and suggested exploration of other ways of handling this or finding a different educational setting that better fit your rigid ways of dealing with 'kids like this' and your age, gender, area of origin or accent are red herrings that you should not be using as excuses, as you are now and have repeatedly referred to as reasons why - reasons why you absolutely cannot approach any of this in a different way? That's utter rubbish.

Original poster
boilerhouse2007 · 19/05/2018 13:52

''I personally don't appreciate your combative responses to a post which I made which was pretty calm and considered and suggested exploration of other ways of handling this ''

my response was calm, i asked for tips. Nor was my post ''resistant, argumentative and antagonistic'', I was asking for tips on best way to handle it.

''My DD has a teacher like you in her school. I feel he is a hair's breadth away from clocking a pupil he's that wound up in lessons and conducts daily verbal tirades on the whole class which achieve absolutely nothing but wasting 10 minutes in every lesson.He makes unnecessarily nasty comments, personal comments, inappropriately aggressive comments to my DD and other pupils in the class ,''

yea so when exactly did i make inappropriate, nasty and inappropriate comments to any of the students. Also perhaps it could be your dd and her mates that are the problem? Maybe they just are not behaving themselves because they are not getting great parenting at home?

OP posts:
Bombardier25966 · 19/05/2018 14:09

@DoinItForTheKids

Brilliant post, and an excellent perspective on how the students see the OP.

boilerhouse, every other post you're blaming others for your issue - other teachers, the children, and now the parents. You know where the problem really lies, don't you? And that the person that needs to make changes is you. If that means acknowledging teaching is not for you then that gives you the opportunity to move forward and do something more appropriate. That's not failure, it takes strength to admit something is not right for you.

Original poster
boilerhouse2007 · 19/05/2018 14:13

''Brilliant post, and an excellent perspective on how the students see the OP. ''

so how do the kids see me? because i just got accused of being ''a hair's breadth away from clocking a pupil he's that wound up in lessons and conducts daily verbal tirades on the whole class which achieve absolutely nothing but wasting 10 minutes in every lesson. He makes unnecessarily nasty comments, personal comments, inappropriately aggressive comments to my DD and other pupils in the class.''

Where from my posts did i say i ever did any of these things in a classroom???

OP posts:
Original poster
boilerhouse2007 · 19/05/2018 14:16

@DoinItForTheKids this was a difficult student who was being difficult, so if your dd was being difficult to you when you were dealing with them and your mil stepped in and undermined you ,, how exactly would you feel??

OP posts:
Bombardier25966 · 19/05/2018 14:19

I know it's not what you want to hear, but you are coming across as one of those teachers. You don't need to say it, your tone does so for you. And it's quite likely you don't even know you are doing it.

If you're not aware of how you come across, then you're lacking in self awareness. Have you looked into psychotherapy, so you can get an insight into why you act the way you do? That will enable you to make changes, either in your approach in the classroom or in seeking a new career elsewhere.

Original poster
boilerhouse2007 · 19/05/2018 14:22

''I know it's not what you want to hear, but you are coming across as one of those teachers.''

because i don't agree in undermining I am ''1 of those teachers''., you are not a teacher so you do not understand. So are all the other posters that agreed with me also ''one of them teachers''??

OP posts:
KatieKittens · 19/05/2018 14:25

You seem to be acting emotionally, rather than rationally to this situation. Take a step back and analyse the situation.

Deep breath.

Do you think you are frustrated and giving yourself a hard time over the student not complying with you, or is this part of a bigger issue? Do you think you are transferring the blame to your colleague?

My analysis of this situation is that you and this other teacher perceive your roles differently in the school. She may see herself as part of a team working towards a common goal, whereas you think it is important to have sole authority over the students you teach.

Have you considered that her aim was not to undermine you, but show the student a united front? From her perspective, if she had walked away and ignored the students behaviour, she would have been condoning it.

Every teacher has a different personality and communication style. You don’t need to compete with each other. It’s trial and error finding out what works for you and you won’t always get it right. Teaching also involves learning. You can learn from your colleagues, you can learn through professional development and you can learn through reflective practice.

Part of being a teacher is about developing your practice and looking at how you can improve. No teacher handles each and every situation perfectly, people are only human. Cut yourself some slack here.

This is an opportunity for you to reflect on what the factors were at play in this interaction, how the student responded and what you would do differently next time.

If you want some tips, ask your school if there are opportunities for training courses relating to classroom management and behaviour managment.

In the meantime, there are free courses for teachers available online through the open university- I’ll find the link for you.

Original poster
boilerhouse2007 · 19/05/2018 14:28

thank you katiekittens.

OP posts:
Bombardier25966 · 19/05/2018 14:28

You come across as one of those teachers because you're aggressive, defensive and refuse to listen to anything you don't want to hear. You're bullish and rude. That's why you come across as one of those teachers.

(And my partner is a teacher. Unlike you he's able to manage his classes and has the respect of his students, all despite having a different accent to them.)