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Original poster

to feel undermined by colleague

271 replies

boilerhouse2007 · 19/05/2018 08:14

I am a secondary school teacher, anyway there is this young colleague who is in the next room to me and yea she is lovely to the kids, something that just is not in my personality as much and this is a tough secondary school. Anyway, yesterday i was taking a troublesome girl down to my class for detention when the girl started walking and half ignoring me. I told her to come back and colleague appears in front of the boss and uses her soft voice to get the girl back when i wanted to handle it myself. This was all in front of boss too who was in earshot and i was so angry at her interference as i have had words with this colleague before over her interference buut do not want any more conflict and i just felt she stepped in. What do you think?

OP posts:
Original poster
boilerhouse2007 · 19/05/2018 09:45

''Look I think we can all sense the underlying sexual tension here, but it's clear OP doesn't want to face her feelings yet :-)''

let's get this straight, i am a middle aged man in my 40s-overweight and not a young 22 yo like the colleague-married with 4 kids. I am not an older female jealous of her so remove that thought straight away.

OP posts:
ThenCameTheFools · 19/05/2018 09:46

If the girl was not doing with you what she should have been doing, then sorry, but you didn't have a handle on it.

Is this a reverse? Because if not, then you sound a bit obsessed. Are you the younger, more beautiful and perfect Hmm teacher who has to step in to gently and effectively do the battered old crone's job for her?

ThenCameTheFools · 19/05/2018 09:47

Ahhh.

Slartybartfast · 19/05/2018 09:47

so you are an older man jealous of her?

ThenCameTheFools · 19/05/2018 09:48

Now I get it.

Misogyny rules on MN 101.

Over and out.

junebirthdaygirl · 19/05/2018 09:48

Loco parentis..didn't notice that mistake.
Also calling an older teacher an old crone is off.

ElizabethinherGermanGarden · 19/05/2018 09:48

It can suddenly get so much harder once you move from being a 'big sister' figure to a 'Mum' figure, with all the temptation to rebellion and resistance that can imply.

The 'oh, she's always alright for me' can be really undermining to a whole school culture of respect. I can understand your frustration - but it does sound as though your colleague can't. Unless you can explain your feelings in a way that gets through to her, she will carry on doing what she is doing with the sense that this is what's best in her professional judgement.

I actually think this is a cultural issue that SLT should be dealing with. Have you read Paul Dix's 'When Adults Change, Everything Changes'? It's interesting on building a solid culture of support and professional unity.

With regard to behaviour management, have you considered an informal lesson study with a trusted colleague? Google lesson study if you haven't used it before - can be a fascinating thing to do and throw up interesting insights without being judgemental.

Good luck. Hope a sunny weekend makes everything feel better in the short term.

IchFliegeNach · 19/05/2018 09:50

OP I have worked in a school where colleagues would walk past you dealing with a difficult student and it was shit.
Stop thinking of SLT as your 'boss'. You are all in it together and if SLT genuinely make you feel that this isn't the case, then move schools.
Stop comparing yourself to this other teacher, for your own sake. You are good enough and capable enough on your own: trust that others think this too, and that any 'interference' is actually support given that they would give to anyone.

Undermining is disagreeing with what went wrong or what should happen e.g. Agreeing the student didn't have to go back to you or telling them they had done nothing wrong. That is something I would be annoyed at. But coming to the same outcome through a collection of means is working together Ina supportive team.

The job can be tough enough without wingback hard on yourself too. Hope this helps.

Original poster
boilerhouse2007 · 19/05/2018 09:50

''Now I get it.

Misogyny rules on MN 101.

Over and out.''

nothing to do with age or sex, i already said another male in the department who was both older and fatter than me pissed me off in the exact same way 2 years ago along with other colleagues who confronted him over such behaviour.

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ElizabethinherGermanGarden · 19/05/2018 09:51

Ah, so not a 'Mum' figure - my apologies! That came through while I was typing. There's definitely an element of ageism among pupils though, man or woman.

User314 · 19/05/2018 09:53

I'd be annoyed too.

Maybe she is better at it, but also maybe you cannot get a chance to GET better at it when she keeps finishing what you tried to start.

Let's not be naive either, students 'take to' some teachers, if the teachers are bothered about students perceiving them to be 'cool'. You could be doing and saying exactly the same as another teacher but it 'lands' differently. That is the way it is.

SmileEachDay · 19/05/2018 09:54

‘Changing the face’ is a really sensible strategy with teenagers - it allows them to back down without losing face.

It’s a bad message to young people if members of staff don’t support each other if they witness defiance - children need to know everyone has the same boundary in order to feel safe, and therefore learn. That’s the important thing here, not your “power”.

auditqueen · 19/05/2018 09:58

I'm not a teacher, but my partners sister used to teach science in a rough comp. She isn't one of those soft, gentle people and is was t one of the cool types who dress trendy and can get down with the kids. She had this happen to her as well. Time and time again the younger, cooler colleague (who actually wasn't the better teacher) interfered in her classroom management and undermined her in front of the kids until it got to the point where she lost her authority over the kids as they picked up on the fact that her colleague didn't respect her.

She quit and is now in a much better job where she has the respect she deserves. The school lost its only science teacher who was actually science trained.

Original poster
boilerhouse2007 · 19/05/2018 09:58

''If the girl was not doing with you what she should have been doing, then sorry, but you didn't have a handle on it. ''

no usually the student will try this, i then say ''walk on then, that is perfectly fine and i'll call mum and we can do this after school.''

It works so yes i had a handle on it, my approach was just different to colleagues.

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FowlisWester · 19/05/2018 09:58

Hhm. I'd be more annoyed that the boss didn't step in and support you to be honest.
I think you need to perhaps look at your strategies. I'm always grateful when a colleague steps in and we show a united front.
So the pupil was walking away.... let her. Then escalate the situation through your behaviour policy. Over the years I have seen many teachers embarrass themselves by shouting and following someone who walks away. Let then walk away and then report it. Seriously the ones who give chase are hilarious... what are you going to do when you catch them baring in mind you can't actually touch them to stop them.

I would also stop shouting.... kids love a shouter as its very entertaining and gives them good sport. I used to shout before I learned that quiet is more effective.
I do feel though that if I were your colleague and you'd asked me not to help I would have respected that and left you to it.
I have to ask are you sure teaching is making you happy these days? You sound overly stressed

NotTerfNorCis · 19/05/2018 09:59

It's a cliche but when these kids get out in the real world and want to find jobs, not everyone will be nice and soft.

Original poster
boilerhouse2007 · 19/05/2018 10:01

''It’s a bad message to young people if members of staff don’t support each other if they witness defiance - children need to know everyone has the same boundary in order to feel safe, and therefore learn. That’s the important thing here, not your “power”.''

ok then would you say the same thing if you were disciplining your child ''your way''[and everybody has their own ways and ideas of how to handle these things] and your dm or mil stepped in and took a different approach effectively making you look weaker. How would you feel then exactly?

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Bombardier25966 · 19/05/2018 10:03

Your students don't respect you. Having to threaten to call their parents is not handling it, it's reinforcing that they take no notice of you but would not be so disrespectful to their parents.

The problem here is not the other teacher. What steps can you take to change your relationship with the children? Emphasis on you, this is no one else's problem.

Original poster
boilerhouse2007 · 19/05/2018 10:04

''So the pupil was walking away.... let her. Then escalate the situation through your behaviour policy. Over the years I have seen many teachers embarrass themselves by shouting and following someone who walks away. Let then walk away and then report it. Seriously the ones who give chase are hilarious... what are you going to do when you catch them baring in mind you can't actually touch them to stop them.
I would also stop shouting.... kids love a shouter as its very entertaining and gives them good sport.''

Where did i say i was shouting? I wasn't and where did i say i'd chase her? Again you are making assumptions. I already said this student will do this but all i say is ''i''ll get on the phone to mum then'' and student turns around. There was no scene i was creating because student knows i will escalate this without drama.

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0hCrepe · 19/05/2018 10:04

I’m a teacher and have worked with ebd kids in a team. We generally wouldn’t step in if another member was struggling unless there was a restraint situation. We’d say do you want me to help, let me know and be close by.
Sometimes I would think ffs stop locking heads with a child if it became a power struggle, but each person has their own methods and you can’t show them up in front of child, especially when they will seize on that to get control.
Did she come out of the classroom to take over? That’s not on and if it was deliberate to make you look bad in front of smt that sucks.
On the other hand, enlist help from others! Be a team, say to miss honey, xx student is finding it difficult to concentrate and then you’ve invited her in, she hasn’t had to take over, she’s there because youve asked her, you’re still in control.

Original poster
boilerhouse2007 · 19/05/2018 10:06

''I have to ask are you sure teaching is making you happy these days? You sound overly stressed''

yea ideally i'd quit[like many colleagues i know] but this is the real world-bills have to be paid,not so easy just to quit your job.

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LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 19/05/2018 10:06

moofeatures, stop posting like a twat, people don't need their SPAG pointing out and certainly not by you.

Summersnake · 19/05/2018 10:07

Sounds like your struggling,she seems to be managing the kids very well.you can still take advice from someone younger and newer ,they often have enthusiasm that radiates from them..

TERFragetteCity · 19/05/2018 10:08

As an ex teacher I do not think you should be talking about this student on here and i still think you need to learn from your colleague not slag her off on here.

Engage and you will improve your teaching practice. That is what self-reflection is about and you are not taking feedback on here are you?

Original poster
boilerhouse2007 · 19/05/2018 10:12

''As an ex teacher I do not think you should be talking about this student on here and i still think you need to learn from your colleague not slag her off on here.''

no name or identifies or locations have being given so it is hardly identifying and very little info was given over the pupil. Get a grip.

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