To wonder what people think about this, child maintenance

[TWDfan]

A man has a one night stand that results in the woman becoming pregnant, neither of them were mindful about taking precautions.

He tells the woman from the offset that he isn't ready to have a baby and he doesn't want to be involved, but respects her decision if she chooses to keep the baby and go it alone but makes it clear he won't be a part of the childs life or hers.

Woman keeps the baby knowing the father won't be involved and is prepared to be a single parent, as the due date looms the father begins getting messages about paying for the child.

Should he pay CM?

Yes. This was my BIL situation before he met DSIS.

He has a court order and pays a fair bit each month. The DS concerned is now 15. He has not seen the lad since he met DSIS when the child was two.

My Dsis is content with him abandoning his child. I personally do not know how they sleep at night playing happy family with their own DC only.

I presume all those who say he DTD and therefore should face the music oppose abortion?

That would be an epically stupid thing for you to presume, wouldn't it?

Catinthecorner Please forgive my flippant thought - who is going to check he hasn’t had it reversed and how?

*I am going to be the opposite voice.

Unfortunately the law says he has to pay.

This is where a woman holds all the cards. She can choose to keep or abort. Even if she gives birth she can then choose to keep, put forward for adoption, put into care. The man has no input to any of her decisions but is expected to abide by them. In short a woman can negate her obligations but a man is forever tied. I do think a man should get the same option as a woman to waive all rights.

PS - ONS, I'd be getting a paternity test.*

100000000% agree.

Even if she gives birth she can then choose to keep, put forward for adoption, put into care. The man has no input to any of her decisions but is expected to abide by them. In short a woman can negate her obligations but a man is forever tied. I do think a man should get the same option as a woman to waive all rights

Thats all just pure bollocks. Yes, he can't affect her decision on an abortion or not, that is how it should be. But if she decided to have it and give it up, he would have all the parental rights and could take the child subject to being deemed suitable. And if she keeps it, how is he tied? How unbelievably easy is it for a man to walk away, pay nothing, do nothing? Very. No-one is tied, he can just fuck off.

I have a question regarding adoption.
If a woman wants to choose to put her baby up for adoption, what if the dad wants to be in his child's life and doesn't want the adoption to go ahead? Where does he then stand? Does the dad have to give his consent before she goes ahead with the adoption? Surely he wouldn't have to adopt his own child...

@feelingoodinspring the only cases I remember reading about where this has happened is where the fathers' were deemed by the courts as being unsuitable to look after the child. As not all cases where the father gets custody goes to court or are in the news - I was bought up with a couple and known cases throughout my life including now - then I suspect it happens.

@feelinggoodinspring a friend of mine was in that situation. He got given full custody by social services (although she kept 1 hour a month visitation which she doesn't always take). She was not put on child support but only because he said he didn't want it. He didn't have to fight or do anything, just show up at the hospital and took the baby home. Social services did the rest

Yes. He’s made a baby, the baby exists. He is therefore responsible to help pay for that child because f- knows I don’t want to pay towards another child with my taxes because some feckless waster doesn’t want to shoulder the responsibility.

He would be able to have full custody of the child as long as there wasn’t some serious reason why he shouldn’t be.

Yes he should because quite frankly he helped make that baby. He could have also put something on the end of it regardless of women's contraceptives etc

If a woman wants to choose to put her baby up for adoption, what if the dad wants to be in his child's life and doesn't want the adoption to go ahead? Where does he then stand? Does the dad have to give his consent before she goes ahead with the adoption? Surely he wouldn't have to adopt his own child

If she didn't want it and he did, he'd get the kid unless he was deemed unsuitable for some reason.

@feelingoodinspring - I know you said if the guy knew he was the father and wanted to be involved, what were the legalities of going forth with an adoption etc. But if he did not know then it might interest you to know that a woman a few years ago won the right to give up her baby without having to inform her one night stand (or name him etc). So imagine you could give up a baby if the father does not know.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-496029/Mother-gave-birth-night-stand-wins-right-baby-secret-father.html

I agree with him. It took both of them to be a bit silly and get her pregnant, but she gets all the choices now. Shes known since early on when elective abortion was available that he absolutely did not want this child, didn't want to be in his or hers life, and didn't want the financial commitment.
At that point, she had the option to keep the baby and be a totally single mum and sole provider, look into adoption, or abort. If she wasn't willing to ever have an abortion, SHE should have taken more care with her contraception, since there are way more options for women, and shes the one who would have to have the termination, or have her body changed forever by pregnancy and birth.

It is unfair that in the case of an accidental pregnancy (whether lack of any protection or failure) a man can be forced into the responsibilities of parenthood. Nobody can force that on a woman, nor can she be forced to abort, but literally the biggest decision in life, to be a parent or not, is taken out of a mans hands, and that must be horrible to have that kind of responsibility forced on you.

Maybe there needs to be some sort of system in place, that during the time elective abortion is available, if an accidental pregnancy occurs and the male doesnt want to have the baby, but the woman chooses to keep, the woman forefits the right to go after the male for contact/money. Obviously in cases of planned pregnancy or guys who "change their mind" after the elective abortion window etc then yes, still have the maintenance system, but it really isnt fair a man can have the biggest choice you can make, made for him with no say.

Well aware this wont be a popular opinion, no, not a troll, just the genuine opinion of someone who bsolutely doesnt want kids and can sympathise with those who have it forced on them.

YES he should have been more careful with unprotected sex, but the sooner males have an option other than just a condom, the better, as right now, with 90+% of the options being for women, yes the woman should have a bigger responsibility for contraception and pregnancy prevention.

@AlmostAJillSandwich

Thankyou for unintentionally making the best argument I have ever seen for repealing the eighth amendment in Ireland.

It is unfair that in the case of an accidental pregnancy (whether lack of any protection or failure) a man can be forced into the responsibilities of parenthood. It is therefore the woman who is faced with these responsibilities as she does not have a choice otherwise.

Nobody can force that on a woman, nor can she be forced to abort, but literally the biggest decision in life, to be a parent or not, is taken out of a mans hands, and that must be horrible to have that kind of responsibility forced on you. Actually that decision is forced on women. It is a forced responsibility.

Be an incubator or be criminalised.

Yes but good luck in getting the payment
One of my friends only gets 30 quid a month and she was married to the dad
CM means nothing in financial terms

@Bananas my post was purely about countries where abortion IS allowed.
Obviously in countries where abortion isn't legal and the woman has no choice, neither should.
But in countries where elective abortions exist, where the pregnancy is known about during the elective window, and the male is informed, i personally think the male should be able to revoke all responsibility, but also all rights. No system could be perfect, there will always be pregnancies not caught in the elective window, women who can't/don't inform the father in time (in which case the window to elect to revoke responsibility should be extended, as long as it isn't the male that have prevented contact intentionally)

Nobody should have their right to decide to be a parent or not taken away. Since there's no fair way to decide on the child physically being born, since it would possibly force a woman to either have a baby or abort one, then the decision to be emotionally or financially responsible is the next best.

Well aware this wont be a popular opinion, no, not a troll, just the genuine opinion of someone who bsolutely doesnt want kids and can sympathise with those who have it forced on them.

If you have sex voluntarily then having kids isn't "forced' on you.

I presume you have had a vasecectomy or a sterilization - since you absolutely don't want children.

To be honest, I think you shouldn't have children.

Your opinions on how children should be left unprotected and unsupported because a man thought he was was having carefree sex and isn't that the most important thing after all - that a man should have carefree sex -- well I think you really shouldn't have children.

I do hope you have taken actual permanant measures to ensure this. Not just hoping the condom will work.

But in countries where elective abortions exist, where the pregnancy is known about during the elective window, and the male is informed, i personally think the male should be able to revoke all responsibility, but also all rights.

But if the woman doesn't want to have an abortion and the man does under your scenario ... if he gets his "virtual aborion" or financial abortion as its been called on here (and let's face it who give a fuck about the actual child - not you and not this putative man) then surely he should have to jump throught the same hoops a woman does in order to have an abortion.

So fine. he gets to have to take 2-3 days off work. Pay for it. Travel. Take some health risks. Be looked down on by many. Have to declare it on his medical history. Deal with the aftermath - geez how would we get him to do that since he doesn't have an aftermath. what to do what to do?

And meanwhile there is a child ... but you don't give a fuck about him or her.

What if the woman deliberately lied about contraception and got pregnant on purpose? We don't know the full circumstances.

What if the woman deliberately lied about contraception and got pregnant on purpose? We don't know the full circumstances

What about if a man who wants neither infection nor pregnancy uses a condom?

What if the woman deliberately lied about contraception and got pregnant on purpose? We don't know the full circumstances.

A) op says in 1st post neither bothred with contraception.
B) why is it the womans sole responsibility to provide contraception? Is a man absolved from that cos he isnt the ine who could get pregnant?
C) if he wsnts to go around having random sex but no kids then its his responsibility to make sure he isnt impregnating anyone. Its not rocket science.

Shes known since early on when elective abortion was available that he absolutely did not want this child

He’s known since early on when elective condoms were available that he absolutely did not want this child.

If you are absolutely sure you don’t want children then you make absolutely sure you don’t make any.

What sort of absolutely morally void scumbag can let his child grow up in poverty to make a point that “she (the mother) had choices”. Regardless of what the co-creator of the child does, you, as an adult, knowingly made a decision that created a human being. Your responsibility to that child exists entirely independantly of the other parents decisions. They may be an absolutely shit parent. That does not excuse you from your duties. Yours exist regardless. Man the fuck up and raise your children.

What if the woman deliberately lied about contraception and got pregnant on purpose? We don't know the full circumstances.

A woman lied?? No way? Has that ever happened before? I don’t think it has so how could any man possibly expect that to happen and take precautions to prevent himself becoming a father. It’s just unheard of.

Since there's no fair way to decide on the child physically being born

So what you’re saying is “men, wear a condom, don’t let it get to the point where the decision is out of your hands”? Right?