If you're always late, can I ask why?

[CulinaryUnderbelly]

Is it because you think your time is more important than the person's who is waiting for you? Or do you just not care that you're going to be late?

I've had this for 15 years with someone and I'm sick of the excuses, like "we had to do X on the way".

The worst time was when they cancelled the night before because they had arranged something else

It would be very difficult for me to not see them anymore, but I would just like to know how people get through life always being late and disorganised. Is it because you're always forgiven?

YY Why that is exactly what it is like.

I do put my keys near the door - this helps, except for the times that I forget to put them there and have to do a mad scramble to find them. This happens a couple of times a month. Usually, thankfully, they are in my handbag or coat pocket. This usually happens if I arrive home at the same time as somebody else and so don't use my keys to open the door. Occasionally if I open the door with something bulky in my hand and I can't easily put the keys on the hook, they get carried through to wherever I'm going and left there, as well. Sometimes if I want to use the USB stick which is on my keyring (that I don't have any more because I lent it to DS and he lost)

The keys > hook thing only works when I open the door and still have my keys in my free hand in order to transfer them to the hook. I can't trigger that reaction if I come in another way, it doesn't work. Even if I put a neon flashing sign next to the key hook it would take a few days before it would begin to become part of the scenery and I'd stop registering it.

We have a shoe rack outside the front door (flat) - this is more at DH's insistence as he is fed up of tripping over shoes everywhere. If it was up to me we would not have this, because it's not important to me, so I would just leave shoes wherever I took them off. As it is sometimes I still do, which led to me in the lift yesterday clutching the wrong shoes because they were the only ones on the rack wondering where on earth I'd left the ones I was intending to wear. I still missed the bus by about 30 seconds.

It is not really practical for me to choose an outfit the night before because invariably I will leave everything until the last possible second (urgency drives me much better than reason, which is infuriating) meaning that I'd be clattering around with a torch waking DH up at 2am trying to assemble an outfit I can't even see properly - when I really should just go to sleep. Of course I should set it up at 9pm, but I know that I won't. In addition slight sensory issues make it difficult to predict what I'll want to wear the next day. But most of my clothes are extremely simple and I don't spend a long time deciding what to wear. I tend to grab whatever is still clean from the day before and then whatever is first in my wardrobe which vaguely goes with it. I do definitely have moments of "Oh these are totally the wrong shoes with these jeans" but I don't have many shoes either - keeps things simple. But - I should also add - impulsiveness and difficulty forward planning mean that my wardrobe has historically been quite haphazard and nothing is really cohesive or goes together. When I'm shopping it's always been more "Ooh, I like this!" and not "What would go well with the other clothes I own?" It's only some work I did a couple of years ago with Konmari and a short obsession with capsule wardrobes which made me realise how helpful it would be to have everything mostly go together and get rid of items of clothing which annoy me completely - e.g. the cardigan with the too-tight sleeves, in order to make dressing myself more streamlined. But this takes time, effort and money. Money is not something I'm swimming in in particular, which is another long story I can also trace back to ADHD (even more poorly managed at that time.)

Another problem with routines is that it can take one big event to disrupt it and then it's totally gone, and I won't initially notice. This might be something like a cold or a school holiday. A school holiday can disrupt my routine enough that it takes 3-4 weeks to get it established again, and if I don't initially try because I haven't noticed, it can be almost time for another holiday before I get it concrete again and then it gets messed up. I've had some success with simply writing my routines down so that I can get back into them more quickly without doing the groundwork, but again, I have to remember to do this every time (and not lose wherever I wrote it!) and my memory and preplanning isn't very reliable.

Everything always has multiple layers behind it, it's not generally the case that something can be fixed with better organisation, that helps some of the time, but you have to remember to do the organising part - and that is usually where the problem lies in the first place. It is like swiss cheese theory except people with ADHD have far more holes than cheese. Organisation simply adds another layer of very holey cheese - so it will catch some errors but by no means all.

The only thing that helps, supposedly, is medication - something I'll try when I'm no longer childbearing!

And, if I'd changed outfit at the last minute then all bets are off and it wouldn't have mattered that the phone/keys/ticket was in a sensible place to begin with - because if I've already transferred it to the outfit I was wearing in preparation to go and then the outfit change happened after that - I wouldn't automatically think to transfer the contents of my pockets when I changed. It would be when I was about to leave and quickly did my keys/purse/phone check that I'd register they weren't there, and by then it's a gamble whether I'd know that I'd put them in the previous outfit or whether I'd just panic and start looking all over for them.

No amount of giving myself a hard time about it, frustrated sighs from my partner or wishing I was able to organise myself better makes any difference

None of these thing make any difference to anyone, whether or not they have ADHD or any other condition.

The only thing that works is actually DOING the stuff that people have outlined upthread . But some posters seem incredibly reluctant to even try.

MOST people would find it hard to put together a nice outfit in 30 secs while the kids are running around screaming at 8am. You are not a uniquely challenged person because you find this tough.

That’s why other people do it the night before. They get their kids to lay out school uniform / sports kit etc so they don’t end up staying at until 2am to take clothes out the dryer.

They print off the ticket and check bus times the night before. They work out travel times from google maps and add in some contingency. They get up at 6 or 7 rather that 8.

I’m not “ twiddling my thumbs or doing something interesting “ either before I meet you. I’m doing the boring old shit of getting organised so I can meet you on time.

I would be “ running about in a panic “ if I lived like you too. Why don’t you just try putting in place some of the strategies that the rest of us boring ordinary people use? Or is that just too mundane ?

No, it's not anything to do with being mundane. It's difficult when you have certain imbalances which make doing things in advance, anticipating what will be required and sticking to routines difficult. Most people with ADHD have tried far more organisational tips, tricks and systems than most people! And they fail.

Running around in a panic because nothing is prepared is the result of the symptom, it isn't the symptom itself. The symptom is finding it hard or not actually being able to do all of the pre organising stuff that other people take for granted - note, I'm not saying that other people find this easy or fun! But that most people either automatically know that organisation needs to be done in advance or have learned from past experience that it's a much less stressful experience when this is done in advance and are able to apply that to future situations. ADHD brain chemistry prevents this kind of learning from experience, makes it extremely hard to set up and/or stick to routines, and while we can learn it in theory and know that it's a thing which helps other people it remains hard for us to do it and habits never seem to become automatic, no matter how often they are repeated. It takes conscious thought at all times simply to keep up with the important things, which is exhausting in itself and does not leave space for everything. That means that certain things get left out, and so either you forget the important stuff or you end up with massive inefficiency on stuff which would make the things you DO remember easier and more streamlined. There isn't enough brain space for both.

" I wouldn't automatically think to transfer the contents of my pockets when I changed."

That's why you always keep your stuff in one handbag that you use for work and leisure.

Those whinging about others, do you not think that maybe there are lots of people who have undiagnosed or unrecognised difficulties

I think there is a minority of people out there with conditions or hidden disabilities that makes organisation for them difficult. I think for the rest they are just looking for infantilising excuses or expecting infinite understanding from others they are affecting. It’s not ‘whinging’ to be pissed off that you have been left waiting on your own for an hour plus because a grown adult can’t get their shit together.

I can't do that. Some days I need to carry A4 folders, and other days I don't want to lug an almost-empty rucksack around. My phone is normally in my pocket as I use it at home as well.

Besides, it's not exactly unusual to own several different bags!

I would BTW normally put my stuff into one of two bags that I'm using for the day - I was just picking up on the previous poster saying she realised that her key was in the pocket of outfit 1. If I'd put something into a hoodie pocket, for example, I probably would not think to change it to my new clothes if I changed that hoodie. I would not normally put an item into my pocket, but if I was about to go out and had no reason to think I was changing clothes, then it would be one logical/sensible place to put something to ensure that I didn't place it down on a surface and forget to bring it entirely.

So my question to the always late- do you send a text to apologise and update your eta? And if not why not?

“That's why you always keep your stuff in one handbag that you use for work and leisure.”

Except when you lose the bag while you’re out, you’re stuffed because everything important is in it. If things are in my pockets I only lose them inside my house.

“Why don’t you just try putting in place some of the strategies that the rest of us boring ordinary people use?”

I have lots, some work some don’t... some uncover a different problem I then need a strategy for.

The repeated suggestions of google maps are quite funny, that is what I use to plan journey times, because I couldn’t just guess... it’s never accurate.

Thank you for explaining . Can you understand how frustrating it is when it’s WORK and takes TIME and EFFORT to other people too , and yet people post here saying it’s easy or fun or a breeze or automatic for Everyone else Except them.

It’s not automatic to me either . I have to make lists and check them. I find it hard. It takes time. I can’t keep all this stuff in my brain. I set alarms on my phone when I put food in the oven or when I have to start getting ready to take child to an activity. I set up systems to keep me organised ( or maybe less chaotic ).

The people who turn up an hour late are always the ones chatting about the latest Netflix set they watched last night. Well no I didn’t fucking watch it because I was getting organised to be here on time to meet you .

So please stop assuming it’s zero effort for me.

For all you habitually late people saying your friends don't mind.. They probably tell you they don't mind or don't make a fuss. I would bet though if you habitually keep people waiting it will bother them, they are just too polite to say.

You may also not get certain invites because of it or friends may avoid planning certain events with you because of it. This probably doesn't bother you though.

I have several friends who are habitually late - and it certainly affects what I would agree to do with them or what plans I choose to include them in.

People do notice this and of course it is irritating to be always left waiting for someone.

Get a grip Ajas life is unpredictable......even for the perfect!

Depends - if I'm meeting another likely-to-be-late person then I wouldn't because I know they'd text me if they got there first.

Likewise if they were at home or it was a group gathering or something I wouldn't text if it would be maybe 10 minutes, but if it was going to be longer then I would.

If I knew they were out and about, on their own and/or we had been very specific about the time, I'd send a text even if it would only be 5-10 minutes.

If I am going to be late to work even by one minute I'll call as soon as I know there's no chance of me getting there earlier.

TBH I tend to gravitate towards friends who also struggle with timekeeping or who are laid back about that kind of thing because I don't especially like frustrating and winding people up!

I do not nonchalantly turn up an hour late chatting about TV - if I was an hour late I'd be quite upset and frustrated with myself. I don't think timekeeping is magically easy for other people I just know that it's a struggle for me.

I think people make excuses for being the kind of person who is always late. They aren't reasons, they are excuses.
Slap a label on yourself and its ok?
People say 'its just who I am' No it's not, it's who you choose to be because you can change if you really want to.
My daughter in law is always doing things last minute and keeps people waiting but strangely, she is always on time if we are picking her up or she is meeting us to go out, because she knows that we will wait ten minutes and leave without her if she isn't ready by then.
The frustration she causes other people is ridiculous but they put up with it and moan about her all the time.

Sitandstay - well friendship to me isn't about being polite to each other, I couldn't stand a friendship where I had to watch what I say or do. I've done stuff in the past where they have told me it pissed them off and vice versa, we apologise and move on. If something is particularly time relevant like a theatre trip or reservations somewhere then I can usually make it just but like someone else said it takes an enormous amount of effort and isn't sustainable everyday. If I'm late for a meal I'll text and tell them to start without me and I'll skip starters etc so it isn't a problem and I don't get left out.
Work I'm on time for but probably because I start half an hour after school drop off and it's a 15min drive so I go straight from one to the other. Not everything is so cut and dry as people like to make out

Gotagetmoving - so you have no vices at all? You are a perfect weight, perfect person, no bad habits? People don't have had habits because they choose to be that person, it's usually learnt behaviour that isn't easy to break. I'm late, that's mine but I don't drink or smoke, I eat healthily, I try to be compassionate and understanding. There are things I am shit at and things I imagine I am better at than you but I doubt that is because I try and you don't. People aren't perfect for God's sake.

I hate being late to things, so I usually aim to be early. If I am running late it’s because of the dog, the boy or both. And I’d always text to let the other person know. I’d never dream of being late like that and not letting someone know. I don’t think she has very much respect for you, OP

And as so many others have already said, I am pretty certain most people are not bothered by being 5/10 minutes late every now and then , this is pretty normal. It is the people who are always late and usually by in excess of 30 minutes each time. Its extremely tedious.

I remember I was going on a group organised coach trip one time and one of our habitually late friends didn't arrive on time. We messaged to say the coach was leaving and to meet us there, otherwise we would all be late to something that has to start on time. She asked for the coach to come by her house and pick her up and was pretty disgruntled when we said no!!

Gotagetmoving - so you have no vices at all? You are a perfect weight, perfect person, no bad habits? People don't have had habits because they choose to be that person, it's usually learnt behaviour that isn't easy to break. I'm late, that's mine but I don't drink or smoke, I eat healthily, I try to be compassionate and understanding

Of course I'm not perfect but I don't expect other people to put up with things I may inflict on them. I don't demand that people inconvenience themselves to accommodate me.
I wasn't talking about people who are sometime late. I was talking about people who refuse to be on time.
There is no big issue with my daughter in law. We both know where we stand. She knows there are people who will put up with her inconsiderate attitude and she know we we won't so she magically manages to be on time for any arrangements she makes with us. You think it's ok for people to be constantly late but not ok for people to not put up with it? That their time is more important than those they keep waiting?
I'm ok with people being late if they choose to be but I don't have to be inconvenienced by it.

“you choose to be because you can change if you really want to.”

Lol, yeah I just woke up yesterday and thought stuff it... I’m going to be badly organised and run late for stuff

I’ve had decades as an adult, constantly trying to be more organised, trying strategies and see what works for me and what doesn’t. But, it only takes one little unexpected thing and all my planning is shot...because it all relies on it going how I planned and then has a knock on effect.

Oh and yes I text people, if it’s more than 5 minutes I text.

but it is the subconscious nature of your self-importance that we are picking up on

This hits the nail on the head for me. I am always either early or on time. If the event is at someones house though (or a party) - if I am early I will go for a stroll or something as I totally get it that it is annoying to show up early in this context.

My logic is - I hate to keep people waiting as it feels very disrespectful. This feeling is ingrained. I don't like wasting peoples time. If I am late and they are just hanging around - that is time where they could be doing something else.

So when people are habitually late, I mean always late with no real excuse - it screams to me that they don't have that same respect for me or others. Whether this is conscious or not they just don't. That is what is so unattractive.

So please stop assuming it’s zero effort for me.
It’s is far easier without adhd though to do those strategies and actually keep to them.

My DP is perpetually late. We were going away last weekend. He said we'll leave in the morning so we've got time to see parents etc. We left at 2pm. How is that even close to morning? I was fuming and then the normal 3 hour drive became a 5 1/2hr drive because of all the BH traffic. Last year he almost didn't make our holiday. I'd checked my baggage in and he was running through the airport as they were just about to shut up shop for that flight. It's not only family things, it even affects his work. If I was regularly late for work I'd get a warning and, if I didn't change, be sacked. How has he got to an adult being late for nearly everything? He has no excuse and gets annoyed when he misses things as he thinks they should be able to 'squeeze' him in. Argghhhh, drives me mental!

I have regularly leave to get to events on my own so DP doesn't make me late. He wanted to go on a bike ride a while ago and I said yes. It was before the clocks changed so I said we needed to go in next 10mins because I didn't want to ride in the twilight/dark. He faffed and fussed for ages so I rode off without him. Had a lovely cycle on my own! I suppose I'm used to being independent AND on time for things so better to leave him to his own devices. What really angered me was that he was even late for my planned cesarian! Fortunately the team were running late so he was actually there as I got wheeled in. I wouldn't still be with him if he hadn't have got there.

I work with people who have difficulties. People making suggestions as to how they can improve the situation and Develop good habits aren't doing so from a lack of empathy. There are very few conditions where things can't be done to support and help a person improve their organisation skills of they are willing to cooperate and make the effort to try suggestions. Living chaotically is stressful. Any offers of advice come from wanting to help the person.