AIBU to think if boys in changing room bother you, use the private cubicle

[starfish2020]

So to clarify, I have a boy with special needs and there is no way I can send him alone to the men’s
They only have male-female changing areas which is annoying.
They have 1 just 1 disabled changing room, which is usually needed by a person who has mobility problems in a wheelchair etc.
Someone today complained and the staff came to ask me how olds my boy is and why is he in female changing room?!
Well he has special needs and although he looks about 10/11 he is only 8 and mentally probably even lower.
My issues is this. There are single changing cubicles and the women who object to my boy seeing them naked can use those. Why do they prounce around but naked if it bothers them. I can’t fit in the cubicle with him and help him to dry/change it’s just not big enough.
So who is being unreasonable?!
Me who WILL keep bringing my boy with ME to female changing room, or the people who complain about it considering there are private cubicles available for them to use, they just choose not to.
Mumsnet wisdom needed

Slaney you're not making it better. The point is that 8 year olds are allowed in the changing room. If people don't want to run the risk of encountering one while naked they should use a cubicle. No-one has to announce anything.

YABU, there is a cubicle available for you and your son but your choose not to wait for it.

". I wouldn't be happy about my young daughter seeing a nude male."

Ward!?!? Why what is s so abhorrent about a nude male that your daughter couldn't possibly see!

*you

YANBU as he’s only 8, but once you hit the cut off you would be U.

You say you can’t fit in the cubicle, what about a woman who might be there with her own young children but doesn’t want to get changed in front of a male on the cusp of the age limit for being allowed in? Maybe a mum and 2 kids wouldn’t fit in the cubicle either?

They clearly need more disabled provision however. As for the person who has an 11 year old still going into ladies changing rooms that’s too old (assuming no special needs). Imagine how one of the girls in his class would feel seeing him wander into the area when she’s getting changed. But then you’ve already said you don’t give a shiny shite so I guess you don’t care my boys are 9 and 12 and would have a fit if I tried to make them come into a female changing room!

this thread IS horrible. You're not doing anything wrong OP - some people are just ignorant fuckwits.

@WaxOnFeckOff Reality is that as a stranger you can't tell if the child is disabled or have overprotective parents and OP shouldn't have to announce it or wear a sign so that she's not hassled. I wonder what Dads in the reverse situation do for their daughters at this pool?

It really makes me sad that people can't slightly inconvenience themselves in order to support vulnerable children regardless of any extra needs

Me too, not only that but they see the very suggestion that they should do so as utterly outrageous. As for cognitive dissonance... who the fuck do people think are the carers that should have additional inconvenience placed upon them while already doing a thankless job?

As I say, I am quite a private person so I would use a cubicle anyway but I wouldn't consider a young boy any more of an issue than a young girl or a woman if I had no choice but to change in the open

I change in the open because then I can stand by a locker. I would go into a private cubicle if there was a boy who looked 11 in there in my site line (my baths has half walls in the changing area). I would not give a single iota of a fuck in the circumstances OP describes. Obviously it depends on the 11-year-old-looking child's behaviour.

I understand that not everybody has this option for various reasons and that's crap. In an ideal world those things could have been explained to OP reasonably and OP may have seen the point and maybe not felt so personally attacked by the complaint. As it is the OP understandably went on the defensive given the deluge of pontificating hyperbole thrown at her.

I’m not a bit bothered by an 8 year old little boy. Buts it’s unreasonable to suggest that if you don’t like an 8 year old boy, that looks like an 11 year old, to appear you should use a cubicle. Because you would have no reasonable expectation of that happening so that you could pre-empt it.
The AIBU was if you had a problem you should use the cubicle.

OP doesn't have to use the accessible facilities as she is entitled to use the ladies and she is also leaving that facility for people who have a greater need to use it. She would probably also be slated for using that facility without an obvious need. caught between a rock and a hard place.

I can understand why people might raise with the management that Ops son is in there if he looks older but the answer is that he is only 8 so people can then decide whether they are ok with that, whether they want to use a cubicle or choose a different pool with a different policy or changing facilities.

Because you would have no reasonable expectation of that happening But an 8 year old who looks 10 is still only 8. So either you have a problem with 8 year old boys or you don't. If you do you use a cubicle all the time as rightly, you never know when one might appear. If you think the boy is older and breaking the rules then as has happened here, you can point that out to the management. I'm sure if it only happened once you'd maybe chalk it up to experience but if it is happening regularly, it must get wearing.

Actually, this is a complete non issue - OP has a kid of an age that he's allowed to be in the women's changing room, according to the pool policy.

So at this point - yep, I'm with her as far as if I swam there I'd be aware they allow 8yo boys into the female change. If I didn't want to change with 8yo boys I'd go elsewhere or use a cubicle (whatever my private thoughts on whether this is a reasonable policy).

She's also said she gets that she'll have to make alternative arrangements once he turns 9.

So all good, albeit OP's tone may have been somewhat abrasive.

For me, the more interesting question is why she can't just go into the men's change to help him. He's a male. He needs a carer. She's that carer.

Because she doesn't want to look at random penises? Fair enough. Wouldn't bother me.

Or because the chaps could reasonably object to a woman in their male space? Also fair enough.

So if we are saying that a) women & girls shouldn't be obliged to look at naked males if they'd prefer not to, & b) men & boys have a right not to be discomfited by females when they're naked...then OP's ds once he reaches the cut off age, & all other boys once they do, do not belong in female changing a) because w&g don't wish to see him nude & b) he has a right to privacy.

So however you slice it, the OP's son shouldn't be in female changing after he turns 9.

Which - & again this is where we came in! - she seems not to be arguing against. ..

Does your son have an EHCP with physio needs?
Yes

When anyone has limited information, they respond or react on the basis of that information.

The women who complained don't know your son is only 8.

They don't know your son has SN.

They don't know you're unable to use the private cubicles due to the lack of space.

I very much doubt that anyone would have complained had they known this.

I'm not suggesting that you make an announcement to the entire changing room... I'm just saying they don't have all the facts... but based on the information they had (A boy who looks 10/11 in the female changing rooms), then they were justified in their complaint.

Most people are sympathetic to the struggles of parents in your situation .... most people aren't really that unreasonable.

It may seem that way for you at the moment and I can sense your frustration. You are getting a lot of the responses because you mentioned the women prancing around. Almost like they were flaunting their naked bodies around the place. As a few posters have said, that's where the comments of being entitled come from.

I'm sure you've made numerous requests for additional facilities. Perhaps you could write to the centre manager explaining what happened today and that you are quite worried what your options will be, when your son turns 9 .. ask what suggestions they are able to offer you.

Whether your son notices or not it is uncomfortable for the women and girls in the main changing room. You have been very vocal about not fitting into a cubicle but there is absolutely nothing stopping you having your son go into the cubicle and you standing in the doorway helping him when he needs help. Presumably since he can swim he is not incapable of doing part of the dressing/undressing drying needed himself. Your attitude is that everyone else is wrong and they just have to suck it up!

"I also don't think a disabled male child's right for assistance should trump women's right to a male free space."

Why? I do, there are cubicles the women can use and there isn't anywhere the OP can use without her autistic child being late for class which is likely to cause a meltdown I suspect. Life is generally a damn sight harder for the OP and her son than most able-bodied women so personally I think his needs trump their sensitivities.

Why what is s so abhorrent about a nude male that your daughter couldn't possibly see!
It's inappropriate. That's why we have separate male and female changing rooms in the first place. If you think it's ok for little girls to see adult willies then why don't we just have one big changing room and not bother separating the sexes at all?

Purple yes, at this point I presume the policy is the same in the male facilities, that girls are allowed to use them with a parent until they are 9 so everyone treated equally at this point and this isn't taking any regard for additional needs because at this point that isn't an issue as far as pool policy is concerned.

I think past this point it does become more difficult for mothers of sons as 9 can still feel very little and vulnerable and which ever way you cut it, the risk to an unaccompanied child of any gender is higher in a male changing room than a female. Still a very small risk but a risk nevertheless and I'm not one to see an abuser on every corner.

*"I also don't think a disabled male child's right for assistance should trump women's right to a male free space."

Why? I do,*
The space is intended for women though. Therefore they should have the primary right to use it. The lack of an available designated space for OP's son doesn't confer the right to take away the women's space.

Without trying to sound horrible I think it’s pretty obvious my son is disabled, he has to lie down to get changed/dried as he has no balance to do it standing up and low muscle tone to do it sitting
Basically I have to dry him while he is rolled up in a towel like a pancake

So Flutist what do you suggest that single Dads do with their small under 9 girls who need assistance changing when they take them swimming? Send them into the women's on the basis that some kindly female will take pity and help her?

You must know you are being ridiculous.

redastherose The Op has stated that her DS needs to lie down when being changed and therefore can't use the cubicle as the seats aren't long enough.

I think I'm sick of women being expected to care more about other people's male children than their own rights

When? Have I missed something?

Take him into the men's instead. Expect them to be nice and understanding instead. Expect them to give up their space instead.
I can’t do that as women are not allowed in men’s change room
But boys age 8 are allowed into women’s

I have a 9 year old boy with a learning difficulty. He looks completely normal but would not see any danger from a predator. If anyone asked to see his willy, he would show them. When his his dad is not around, I always take him into the women's facilities. If he had any interest whatsoever in seeing girls naked, I wouldn't take him in and he absolutely hates going in there. But he is not ready to go in the men's alone. He is too vulnerable. Women are very supportive of that in real life and i always get him changed discretely. I do get that there is threat to women's rights right now and we are losing many spaces but sending little boys with learning difficulties into the lions den is not the answer.