Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Grandparents having the right to have time with grandchildren

134 replies

yike · 08/05/2018 17:00

AIBU to think this needs to be thought through very carefully and the appropriate safeguards put in place before it goes ahead? I'm all for children maintaining relationships with family (and friends) when parents' relationships break down (particularly so, as it could be an important constant for them), but equally where there has been bad blood there is a real risk as when parents themselves use the kids as pawns in their arguments that grandparents could do the same. Is the idea that this would just apply after a divorce - what about at other times when families are NC? Could grandparents just demand to see grandchildren against the wishes of both parents? What if said GP have a history of manipulation, posting photos of the children on social media without parents' consent, or other questionable behaviour?

OP posts:
Gottagetmoving · 09/05/2018 11:32

It's awful that you Gottagetmoving would allow a lot of abusive grandparents to get access because there are a few good grandparents without access

And it's awful you think I would allow abusive grandparents to have access!
You have chosen to totally ignored what I have actually said.
I'm talking about situations where grandparents have previously had strong loving relationships with their grandchildren or where a parent has spiritually withdrawn access!

Gottagetmoving · 09/05/2018 11:33

Spitefully not spiritually...

Xenia · 09/05/2018 11:36

It is possible under existing law to get an order to see them actually but I tihnk it's quite hard. I would not rush to change the existing law. It is hard enough the non resident parent getting to see the children without giving grandparents more rights too.

When we divorced I made a lot of effort to ensure my children stayed in touch with their father's parents including paying for 10 years very expensive rail fares for 5 to visit - no one including their father ever offered to pay! No one ever thanked me either actually including when I sent photos. Don't know why I bothered but I think it was the morally right thing to do.

AllyMcBeagle · 09/05/2018 11:38

I'm talking about situations where grandparents have previously had strong loving relationships with their grandchildren or where a parent has spitefully withdrawn access!

The emotionally abusive grandparents will claim that access has been spitefully or capriciously withdrawn - how are the courts supposed to judge? This will inevitably lead to abusive grandparents being granted access in a lot of cases where they shouldn't be.

MissP103 · 09/05/2018 11:41

I really dont know what the right thing is here. The country I am in allows gps to apply for access and often successful. On the other side of it, you can sue the gps for maintenance if your partner doesnt pay.

DGRossetti · 09/05/2018 11:43

This will inevitably lead to rich abusive grandparents being granted access in a lot of cases where they shouldn't be.

might be a better way to put it ? The UKs never really been very good at hiding the fact that you can buy the justice you want.

AllyMcBeagle · 09/05/2018 11:43

^ True DGRossetti.

Gottagetmoving · 09/05/2018 11:44

The emotionally abusive grandparents will claim that access has been spitefully or capriciously withdrawn - how are the courts supposed to judge? This will inevitably lead to abusive grandparents being granted access in a lot of cases where they shouldn't be

It can also lead to abusive parents being allowed to deny their children access to loving grandparents.
Parents can also lie in court.
I think some of you underestimate the love grandparents have for their grandchildren and also underestimate how many parents will use their children as emotional weapons against their parents.
There has to be something in place to look at the situation.

StarUtopia · 09/05/2018 11:45

Madness. Hell would freeze over before I allowed unsupervised access for my in-laws to my child

This. And I'm furious it's all over the TV at the minute - giving my psycho inlays ideas...aghhhh.

piggytoes · 09/05/2018 11:46

Over my cold dead body will my father ever have anything to do with my kids.

Because he's a bastard who fucked up my childhood good and proper. Usual story of divorced parents, forced to go and see him and whatever the opposite of the golden child was I was it.
However seeing as the fucker has absolutely zero idea of where I live because I moved to the other end of the country in part to get away from him I would like to see him try. The few people who do know where I live now aren't squealing and he will get absolutely bog all off the electoral register as I am on it anonymously because of him.

He has already tried to take me to court to get access to my kids with the backing of some sort of grandparents rights people. I sent them back a copy of the restraining order and told them to fuck themselves

Dancingmonkey87 · 09/05/2018 11:47

My Sil is a mega bitch and is currently using The dc as weapons against my parent my dad has got terminal cancer. Each case is completely different and on our case my poor dad will only get to see his grandson once before he died and it’s something we as a family will never forget or forgive but it’s hard to regulate and situations where there are toxic inlaws it will never pass.

AllyMcBeagle · 09/05/2018 11:49

It can also lead to abusive parents being allowed to deny their children access to loving grandparents.

The lesser of two evils IMO. If the parents are really abusive then the grandparents should get social services involved rather than just asking for access rights. How is allowing access to the grandparents (eg once a month) going to help that much if the parents are bad? But allowing someone who is abusive to have eg monthly access can still do a massive amount of harm.

piggytoes · 09/05/2018 11:49

As for the love grandparents have for their kids I'm sure if you ask him he would say that he was a great day when he was growing up loved his kids dearly and.wpuld love to love his grandkids.

My siblings and I can tell you a very different story.

Ohmydayslove · 09/05/2018 11:51

I didn’t bring up my 4 sons or indeed my 2 dds to hit people so that will never happen. No one ‘turns’ out to be violent they are made.

As we can see today’s parents are tomorrow’s grandparents and any of them can be manipulative vile individuals and children need protection.

The state is supposed to step in and protect children from their parents but in my opinion it’s quite acceptable for parents to step in and protect their own children from abusing relatives be they Gp or siblings etc.

In the event of a marriage breakup a good grandparent will just b there to support any grandchildren and both partners but not to take sides but maintain their relationships with both parent and so b there to help grandchildren.

The grandparents I know who don’t see their grandchildren as often, bar logistics, is usually because they are interfering judging or unhelpful. No sane parent refuses the support and help a good grandparent can offer. That would be madness so there’s usually a good reason

IronMansIronButt · 09/05/2018 11:53

No one ‘turns’ out to be violent they are made

Bollocks.

grouchymamabear · 09/05/2018 11:53

Also hope it doesn't go anywhere, it's shocking the way that "grandparents rights" get abused in the US.

SunwheretheFareyou · 09/05/2018 11:57

@Ohmydayslove

You speak totally sound logical sense.
Its pretty obvious to me and many others if GP dont see their GC as much as they would like there is usually a good reason.

Your 100% right in that no sane parent would refuse help. In my case my side are long gone sadly I have been on my knees with desperation many times.

I wish that last paragraph could be quoted in the media along with all the current Hoo haa.

Ohmydayslove · 09/05/2018 11:59

iron

Respectfully bollocks back to you but anyway that’s not the point.

Dancing why blame your sil?? Whers your brother in this? Why isn’t he taking them to see his parents?

I adore my grandchildren and we support all our children and dils/sils so I find it very hard to believe that there are hundreds of lovely grandparents out there denied access out of spite!

In 99% of cases it’s down to their behaviour or the behaviour of a dead beat dad who has pissed off and has no relationship with his child so doesn’t take the child to see his parents. In that case the GP should place the blame on their son.

However as I said before you build strong supporting loving friendly relationships with your dils/sils and that’s the key.

MillicentF · 09/05/2018 12:00

It won’t get anywhere. It was an Adjournment Debate.

And as for “I didn’t bring up my 4 sons or indeed my 2 dds to hit people so that will never happen”

Wow. That isn’t how it works!

Ohmydayslove · 09/05/2018 12:04

sunWherethefayreyou

Thankyou and I am so sorry you don’t have support. Sadly my one lovely dil has a very selfish mum and dad who literally never offer any help and worse critisise her Angry

My mil was ace and I still miss her. It’s bloody hard parenting and a good grandparent can offer not just physical help but emotional
Support to parents and to grandchildren.

If the parents are refusing it again there’s a valid reason.

Ohmydayslove · 09/05/2018 12:07

Millicent

That’s very unfair. So do you being up tour kids to be violent then?? No of course you don’t and I have worked with violent men and indeed some women. The vast majority experienced and witnessed domestic abuse as children. You model good behaviour.

I am not saying no one ever ever is violent from a loving background but it’s a hell of a lot less rare statistically.

Anyway op I think it’s just talk and hopefully won’t happen. It’s certainly not in children’s best interests.

Gottagetmoving · 09/05/2018 12:08

The grandparents I know who don’t see their grandchildren as often, bar logistics, is usually because they are interfering judging or unhelpful. No sane parent refuses the support and help a good grandparent can offer. That would be madness so there’s usually a good reason@

A good reason? Usually, maybe. Always? No.

All cases are different.

user1485342611 · 09/05/2018 12:14

It's difficult to judge the best solution.

There are a small number of grandparents who would be damaging to their grandchildren if contact. was allowed.
There are a small number of parents who would spitefully withdraw access from loving and kind grandparents for their own selfish reasons.

In both those situations there are people suffering unfairly, and both those groups have a right to a voice.

But I don't know the best solution.

fuzzywuzzy · 09/05/2018 12:16

I dearly hope this is never made into a legal reality. IT would merely add to the layers of hell that is the family courts.

I can say one thing hand on heart, if DP and I split up I would still make an effort for our DC to see their extended fmaily on DP's side, because they are genuinely kind people who adore DC and are loving to all of my DC. I would not want either DC or DP's family to miss out on that.

I would not with EXH's family because they were nasty and abusive and would relish in causing great harm to my DC.

If grandparents want to maintain contact they should arrange it thro their own children.

I can't imagine the hardship to children if they had court mandated contact with grandparents, when would they see their resident parent, when would they have opportunities to go to parties and clubs and events? My older DC were devastated when their friends had parties and they could not attend due to it being contact weekend, because ex was an abusive control freak.

We have enough problems with the current system without throwing an added layer of potential litigation into the mix.

Hygge · 09/05/2018 12:49

I've emailed my own MP and I've just now also emailed Nigel Huddleston to tell him our experiences and asking him to reconsider this issue and to speak to Stand Alone (a charity dealing with family estrangement) to gain a greater perspective on family breakdown.

I've explained to him our experiences of what birthday cards and presents mean and stated that to us it is harassment.

I've asked him to consider what he would do if someone asked him to leave them alone, to stop going to their house, to stop sending cards and presents and letters. Would he stop? Because I think any normal person would stop. It's not normal to keep forcing yourself on someone who doesn't want you.

If this were anybody but a relative he would be supporting people who call the police or take legal steps to have someone leave them in peace.