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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Grandparents having the right to have time with grandchildren

134 replies

yike · 08/05/2018 17:00

AIBU to think this needs to be thought through very carefully and the appropriate safeguards put in place before it goes ahead? I'm all for children maintaining relationships with family (and friends) when parents' relationships break down (particularly so, as it could be an important constant for them), but equally where there has been bad blood there is a real risk as when parents themselves use the kids as pawns in their arguments that grandparents could do the same. Is the idea that this would just apply after a divorce - what about at other times when families are NC? Could grandparents just demand to see grandchildren against the wishes of both parents? What if said GP have a history of manipulation, posting photos of the children on social media without parents' consent, or other questionable behaviour?

OP posts:
MillicentF · 08/05/2018 21:46

“To any parent who does not have access because your son or daughter is not engaged with their own DC, I suggest you focus your finely tuned patenting skills on your own children to resolve the problem before your decide to focus your attentions on the next generation.”

So everything is the parent’s fault? Let’s hope that doesn’t ever come back to bite you........

Gottagetmoving · 08/05/2018 22:06

For goodness sake! No grandparent would get automatic contact or access if there was good reason that they shouldn't.
There must be cases where grandparents are unfairly denied access so that needs to be addressed.

Gottagetmoving · 08/05/2018 22:13

To any parent who does not have access because your son or daughter is not engaged with their own DC, I suggest you focus your finely tuned patenting skills on your own children to resolve the problem before your decide to focus your attentions on the next generation

There are cases where that would be impossible!
The relationship with their 'child' is not the same as the one with a grandchild.
My mother did not tick many boxes as a mother. On paper, you wouldn't have recommended she have a relationship with a grandchild based on her performance bringing her children up but she proved to be a brilliant grandmother and much loved by her grandchildren.

RedForFilth · 08/05/2018 22:39

To any parent who does not have access because your son or daughter is not engaged with their own DC, I suggest you focus your finely tuned patenting skills on your own children to resolve the problem before your decide to focus your attentions on the next generation I can't believe this is what people genuinely think. My son's dad cheated on me, was pretty nasty to me on top of that plus many other things. This was absolutely nothing to do with his parents. He is a grown man who makes his own choices. His parents on the other hand are truly wonderful people. They brought his brother up exactly the same and he is just like them.
I don't understand parents would get blamed for choices their adult kids have made. People need to take responsibility for their own actions instead of blaming mummy and daddy.

UpSideDownBrain · 08/05/2018 22:47

I stand by what I'm saying.
If I were divorced, no way my Pils would get access to the DC through me. That would be up to my ex partner to arrange. His family, his time, his choice. Absolutely nothing to do with me.

UpSideDownBrain · 08/05/2018 22:49

For all of you who have fab pils and expils - that's great and it is your choice if you want to include them. But they should not be able to take you to court if you choose not to.

UpSideDownBrain · 08/05/2018 22:51

Of course this is not limited to PILS - I realise that - but it does seem to be more of an issue.

MillicentF · 08/05/2018 22:52

". But they should not be able to take you to court if you choose not to."
Even if seeing them was in the best interests of the children?

UpSideDownBrain · 08/05/2018 23:00

The parents get to decide what is in the best interests of the child.
In the case of divorce, they do that independently for the time they have them.
Asking a court to micromanage a child's relationships is ridiculous.
If these wider relationships were so critical, you could be banned from moving away or emigrating. We'd all live within a few miles of our family because we would not be allowed to remove the child from the extended family.

RedForFilth · 08/05/2018 23:01

Absolutely nothing to do with me that's a real shame I think. I wasn't even married but still see my ex's parents as part of my family. My son loves his grandparents and I want him to be happy.

UpSideDownBrain · 08/05/2018 23:06

My Pils made no effort with my DC at all. Nowt. But I didn't take them to court for being shit grandparents. I didn't ask lawyers to force them to take them for a few hours a week.
So if grandparents want to sue for access, they surely open the doors for parents to be able to sue them when they fall below the required legal standards of grandparenting.

Which is ridiculous.

Which brings me back to the point that the courts have no role in enforcing ideal family set ups.

RedForFilth · 08/05/2018 23:13

If they got in touch and asked to visit them and your children wanted to see them would you say no though?
As surely courts would only have involvement if a party was being unreasonable?

UpSideDownBrain · 08/05/2018 23:16

I would tell them to organise their visits through the ex. Just as I would not dream of asking an ex to facilitate access with my family - that's my job.

UpSideDownBrain · 08/05/2018 23:20

Hats off to those of you with amazing ex-Pils that you would happily include in your life moving forwards. Not all of us do.
And the idea that a court can start to dictate who gets access to our DC is frankly very scary.

Somtamthai · 09/05/2018 00:27

From the other side, as a child that was more than 50% raised by grandparents. Then idiot father bans access.

It hurts, it’s devestating and now I don’t even talk to my parents.

My grandparents took it to court as grandparents rights had been established for a while.

My parents abandoned me before the case was finished. Guess where I went to live at 14? Yes my grandparents and never talked to my parents again.

Parents need to realise they have responsibilities to ensure the wellbeing of their kids and if they don’t like a person but their kid has a bond - don’t stop access unless the kid is in danger

Gottagetmoving · 09/05/2018 08:21

For all of you who have fab pils and expils - that's great and it is your choice if you want to include them. But they should not be able to take you to court if you choose not to

Where a child has had a relationship with grandparents and they have with their grandchild, then they should be allowed to pursue maintaining that relationship thorough court if necessary.
Not all parents are good parents and not all parents do what's best for their child. The child's interests should be the priority.

MillicentF · 09/05/2018 08:56

I don't like my MIL much. But if Dp and I split up it wouldn't be her fault and my children would still want to see her.

FranticallyPeaceful · 09/05/2018 09:01

Fuck this off with a very large, thick and sturdy barge pole

24hoursprettykitty · 09/05/2018 09:05

Not if they are a malignant narcissist and psychopath like my parents. All they do is hurt people and they hate me , dh and ds2. Not ds1 as he's the golden child.

24hoursprettykitty · 09/05/2018 09:08

Flexocet, that's the kind of thing my abusive parents would say about me!

UpSideDownBrain · 09/05/2018 09:44

How a court would see my DF:
Upstanding member of the community - think Rotary etc.
Respected business man.
Affluent, stable family background.
No criminal record.
Intelligent and articulate.

How I see my DF:
A bully who belittled me at every opportunity.
A man who would smack me daily - and I mean as hard as he could.
A control freak who put lots of crazy rules in place.
No affection, verbal or physical.

No way is he getting access to my DC. But I bet a court would award access because there is no record of any of the other stuff - 8 year old children don't have any body to tell, and when I was a growing up kids were often not believed even if they did tell someone.

Is it right that some kind and lovely grandparents don't get access? No. But an even greater wrong would be to let courts make decisions like this. In a court, he who has the most money tends to win. Most grandparents will have a lot more money than the children they take to court.

DGRossetti · 09/05/2018 10:27

Also since we're talking about courts here, the presumption is it's only wealthy GPs that could take advantage ? Or will we see legal aid for such cases too ?

AllyMcBeagle · 09/05/2018 10:36

Also since we're talking about courts here, the presumption is it's only wealthy GPs that could take advantage ? Or will we see legal aid for such cases too?

Given the current lack of legal aid funding for any family law matters, I doubt it. Nor do I expect that will there be legal aid for parents who want to resist the contact.

And given the typical wealth disparity between the generations I think it is more likely that the grandparents will be able to afford lawyers.

Gottagetmoving · 09/05/2018 10:38

There are grandparents on This Morning programme now who have this problem.

No one expects abusive grandparents to get access!
This issue is to give good grandparents some rights when they have been shut out!

AllyMcBeagle · 09/05/2018 10:40

No one expects abusive grandparents to get access!

I do. It's not always easy to prove abuse, especially subtle emotional abuse.