To think you can be an animal lover and eat meat?

[MyOtherUsernameisaPun]

I know I'm going to be flamed, have donned protective gear...

But I think that it's hypocritical to eat meat and claim to be an animal lover. That isn't to say meat eaters don't deeply love their pets - I fully accept that they do! But I think that in those cases they only love certain animals, not animals generally.

We know that pigs are far more intelligent than dogs. We know that cows form close social bonds with specific individuals within the herd. We know enough to confidently state that there is no reason to separate pets from any other species except that we are conventionally accustomed to doing so.

I think everyone is free to make their own choices and whether or not I approve of them is totally irrelevant. But I don't think there is any logical grounds for a meat eater to claim that they are an animal lover when they're happy for some kinds of animals to suffer and be killed.

So, animals living in the wild living in woodland would rather live in a cage being fed fortified grains?

Don't be obtuse. That was not the comparison I was making.

The comparison was between animals reared with consideration for their welfare and wild animals.

What happens to their meat after their deaths is irrelevant to the issue under discussion.

Sausages are as natural or unnatural as bread.

And as I pointed out earlier, growing plants affects lots of animals too. But nobody cares about their welfare.

Curious - Here is what greenhouse emissions by source really look like. In this world, not in the imaginary world of vegan "wellness" websites.

As you can see, Methane from animals (and humans ) is nowhere near the threat that CO2 is.

And this is what global greenhouse emission looks like. Source: Environmental Protection Agency

As it clearly states on that graph and the page I took it from, the leading cause of climate change is our use of fossil fuels and industrial processes (CO2). Not animal husbandry (Methane) as you claimed.

If there are any other facts you need help with, just let me know

I love animals, they are so yummy

Actually, it's not so simple, Cote.

Methane is a much more powerful greenhouse gas than CO2, particularly short term. So, even at 10% it has a significant impact.

www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-bad-of-a-greenhouse-gas-is-methane/#

I believe in animal welfare and don't wish any animal to suffer unnecessarily.

This is the bit I struggle with. Eating meat isn't necessary, it's a choice. Animals do suffer when they are slaughtered, even in facilities with high animal welfare standards. So by eating meat it's making a choice to cause animals to suffer.

But agriculture negatively affects all sorts of animals as well.
No human activity is animal neutral.

@Lweji
Growing plants affects lots of animals too. But no one cares about their welfare.
How can you not see the hypocrisy!!! You cannot claim to care about animals when you're literally EATING them!!!!!!
This thread makes me sick. I cannot believe the amount of people claiming to care about animals when they're killing and eating them.

Until your eyes are opened, you will never be able to see it from the vegetarians/vegans perspective.
I hope for your sake, one day you will look back at the way you have treated animals and feel appalled.
Animals deserve to live. Stop making excuses. You know the affect animals products has on your body and the planet. But that's not the point, it's about the animals and their right to live. Even if meat was good for us and didn't harm the planet, it's still wrong to abuse and kill animals.

Can you imagine having your baby ripped away from you? Being artificially inseminated just so the industry can make money off of your babies and your milk that was made for your babies?? And at the end, you have your throat slit.
This treatment it disgusting, and the fact that you cannot see this absurd. Society makes vegans and vegetarians feel like the weird ones, we're not weird for not wanting to participate in the murder of animals and their babies.

"even at 10% it has a significant impact."

I didn't say it doesn't have a significant impact.

I said it is not the #1 cause of climate change. And it's not. Any scientific source on this subject (if not vegan websites) will say that CO2 due to us burning fossil fuels and other industrial activities is the #1 cause of climate change.

"Animals deserve to live."

No m, they don't.

You are living in a fantasy world. The real world is one is a dangerous one for animals, where they eat each other all the time.

We are just one more predator, sitting near the top of the food chain.

Again, eat it don't eat animal products for whatever reason of your own. That's fine. But you invite ridicule when you claim it's not natural for humans to eat meat or that animals have a right to live.

Sorry for the typos & repeated words. My phone hates me.

Let's face it, you can ignore the facts however long you want to but the UN have said (years ago, anyway) that people need to adopt more of a plant based diet and reduce their meat and dairy intakes for the sake of the environment and the planet. But we're a selfish bunch, and people on here will throw any kind of response your way just to try and justify their lifestyle. We don't need to eat meat, we don't need to eat dairy, we don't need to kill billions of animals every year to put food on our plates and yet we still do (I say we, I don't) because apparently our ten minutes of satiation and taste is more important than the entire life of an animal. Its selfish.

And no, to answer your question - you can't be an animal lover and eat meat. You don't get to just pick and choose which animal is a friend and which is alright to stab in the throat and eat.

And please don't respond saying you shouldn't have to justify your lifestyle - the average person is responsible for the deaths of just under 100 animals a year, unnecessarily. That sort of behaviour needs justifying to me, and "it tastes good" isn't good enough.

Good lord. Were nowhere near the top of the food chain. I'd love to see you out in the wild trying to take on a lion or a bear with own tiny canines and little nails. No, instead we'd be eating plants or fruit because we're not going to get our ass kicked that way.

Animals that eat meat HAVE to eat meat to survive. We don't. There is no comparison.

Growing plants affects lots of animals too. But no one cares about their welfare.
How can you not see the hypocrisy!!! You cannot claim to care about animals when you're literally EATING them!!!!!!

Erm...

I was pointing out the hypocrisy of vegetarians, who, by eating farmed plants, also affect animals negatively. Maybe not directly by eating them, but it's still damaging. Even biological production does its best to reduce pests. Even if by encouraging predators to eat pests.

“vegetarians need to understand is that if people don't eat meat then farmers won't breed animals to eat. There wouldn't be any cattle, sheep or pigs in our fields. Wouldn't that be an awful shame?“

I’m ok with that. I’m of the mindset that it’s better for them not to have been born than have a crap life, be separated from their Mother as a baby and be slaughtered when they’re still young... not to mention the conditions many have to live in.

I said it is not the #1 cause of climate change. And it's not.

It's not that simple. Because methane converts to CO2 and has a very strong short term effect. As the article suggested, the way the effect of methane is integrated in models may not be the best and may be underestimating it.

Still, it's details. I'm happy to agree that reducing the number of animals grown for meat production is a good thing in many ways. From reduction in methane production to impact to the environment. We do eat far too much meat, above our protein requirements. I know I do, and I don't eat that much meat at each meal.

But we eat too much food and processed food at that, too. If people are that worried about impact to the environment, they should eat less and only local produce and from locally adapted plants that don't require green houses, watering or fertilizer.

Which raises another question: where do vegans propose to obtain the amounts of fertiliser required for biological farming? Just rear animals for manure?

Good lord. Were nowhere near the top of the food chain. I'd love to see you out in the wild trying to take on a lion or a bear with own tiny canines and little nails. No, instead we'd be eating plants or fruit because we're not going to get our ass kicked that way.

How do you think humans evolved as, ahem, hunter-gatherers?

It doesn't matter if we're top or not, we're omnivores. And we've adapted to and thrived by eating meat.

Human evolution was driven by the capacity to obtain and process meat.

Even chimps are not beyond having their steak

Chimpanzees over-hunt monkey prey almost to extinction
www.bbc.co.uk/earth/story/20150728-chimps-nearly-wiped-out-monkeys

Which raises another question: where do vegans propose to obtain the amounts of fertiliser required for biological farming? Just rear animals for manure? Exactly. There would be no such thing as 'organic' farming. Exhausted soil and famine in many parts of the world.

I've not read the whole thread (may curse fall upon me), but OP, YOU are the hypocrite for being veggie and not vegan. Do you know anything about the dairy industry?

I've never seen a proper debate on eating animals that have died naturally, it's acceptable among some cultures with humans too (though rare).

anindiansummer isnt it a bit dangerous to eat animals that have died naturally? Like what if they had a disease or parasite that killed them?

Also animal agriculture is bad in many ways but crop farming is also terrible. The need for fertilizer needs to.come from somewhere. Crop rotation takes time. Fields and soil need rest periods with no growth. We would need more green spaces to grow and we havent got enough anyway when more people want houses and estates built on them.

Also sorry if its been mentioned but mechanical exstraction of plants? I was talking to a farmer where i lived once and he said the ammount of field mice he kills when farmimg crops is really sad and said he was suprised if they dont become extinct eventually.

I look forward to the reintroduction of wolves to the London area soon, OP.

Also the argument that animals would be released into the wild as they were originally wild is so flawed. They were not. They were selectively bred to have traits suitable for human needs. They are not the same animals that wildly occured in nature so theres no proof they would survive at all without human intervention.