To think you can be an animal lover and eat meat?

[MyOtherUsernameisaPun]

I know I'm going to be flamed, have donned protective gear...

But I think that it's hypocritical to eat meat and claim to be an animal lover. That isn't to say meat eaters don't deeply love their pets - I fully accept that they do! But I think that in those cases they only love certain animals, not animals generally.

We know that pigs are far more intelligent than dogs. We know that cows form close social bonds with specific individuals within the herd. We know enough to confidently state that there is no reason to separate pets from any other species except that we are conventionally accustomed to doing so.

I think everyone is free to make their own choices and whether or not I approve of them is totally irrelevant. But I don't think there is any logical grounds for a meat eater to claim that they are an animal lover when they're happy for some kinds of animals to suffer and be killed.

Eating meat is a far more difficult diet to follow than a vegetarian/vegan one.
How can people not see this?
Stop making excuses about it being time consuming and expensive.
What bullsht. If you're TRULY buying organic "ethical" meat, then it's far more expensive than eating bloody vegetables.

Also, having to ensure you don't get food poisoning when cooking meat just outright proves we're not supposed to eat it, lions don't check the meat is cooked, do they???!!!
That's because they were (- for lack of a better word -) "designed" to eat meat!
Our bodies can't handle undercooked white meat, if that's not enough proof, then I don't know what is.
There's nothing I hate more than people trying to justify the* needless killing of animals that deserve to live, just like we do.

Curiousmoi... Good to know. So a nice blue steak or steak tartar is fine, but we shouldn't eat potatoes according to that logic.
Humans like every other animal have evolved to cope with our diet.

Truly high-welfare meet is very expensive, that is absolutely true. The chickens sold by my local butcher come from a farm where they roam freely in a patch of woodland, and are reared for much longer than a standard supermarket chicken. Consequently, they cost about £15 each. However, I would rather buy one of these chickens just occasionally (I am not rich!) than eat cheap chicken several times a week. I don't 'love' the chickens, but I am concerned that they have been cared for properly and have had a decent and (reasonably) natural life.

I’ve never eaten meat and I do think it makes quite a few things easier. I just put stuff in the fridge where it fits, I don’t have to keep my chopping boards separate, and I’ve never had food poisoning. It’s also easy to eat healthily really cheaply for me.

Curious meat tastes fucking good. No further justification needed. Who the fuck are you to dictate what other people should and shouldn’t be eating?

CoteDAzur I don’t think I would cope in France then lol

My partner is also never ill. In fact he’s had a cold three times in the five years I’ve known him and I’m ill all the time. I eat much more fruit and veg than he does. I don’t think it’s a science and some people have stronger immune systems than others.

On a serious note though. People can eat whatever the fuck they like but I will never believe that raising children as vegetarians/vegans can be good for them. They need a full and varied diet.

Curiousmoi I cannot see how a vegan diet is easier. I really can’t, I’m not a great cook and struggle from scratch etc but I can whip up a meat and two veg knowing it’s healthy and full of everything I need. I don’t know how to do that with vegan food so for me and most people a meat diet is easier. It’s not excuses or being lazy.

BustopherJones I don’t keep my chopping boards separate really. I have two, one stays on the worktop and one in a drawer. I’ve never gotten food poisoning and wash my hands religiously when cooking, even between chopping veg etc. It’s just called being clean and having good hygiene skills. Nothing to do with whether you eat meat or not. Leaving onion juice on the worktop can be bad for you also as it will attract germs. You wipe it just like you would meat juice, no difference really. The detail cleaners wipes are really handy for between chopping meat and veg, I also chop the veg first anyway. Like I said, I’ve never had food poisoning and don’t store my chopping boards in any particular way, I just clean them, properly.

Dettol Cleanser

That’s only because you’ve got used to cooking that way. I’ve grown up vegetarian so never planned meals around meat. I’ve always checked ingredients so I know what goes into food and had to cook from scratch much more than most of my friends when I was younger. You can have a full and varied diet without meat very easily - particularly now, but even 30 years ago in a small town I never missed out. Except Happy Meals - I didn’t work out you could buy the toy separately for years!

@QuackPorridgeBacon My only experience of meat has been working in a restaurant kitchen - I think I must have just assumed it was a meat thing, rather than a chef thing.

@IronMansIronButt

Taurine - humans produce their own taurine and don't require it from dietary sources (unlike animals like cats and foxes which lack the enzyme to make taurine and so require to consume it from dietary sources). Taurine can also be synthesised and so even in the event of a deficiency, meat is not the only source.

Carnosine - made by the human body. even those who eat a carsonine deficient diet are very rarely found to be carsonine deficient themselves unless liver and kidney function is compromised. In any event, carsonine is found in things like avocados.

creatine - not strictly 'needed' except as an aide to building muscle. Vegan alternatives can be produced - not sure why you think a supplement isn't a valid alternative to meat, let me know!

heme-iron - heme-iron isn't a requirement. It's just a path for the body to absorb iron, and this can be done via non heme-iron which comes from plant sources. Iron absorption is slower from non-heme iron which is actually healthier for humans because it reduces the risk of iron toxicity and doesn't carry the heart risk that eating meat does.

Vit d3 - in the summer months, most people get sufficient d3 from sunlight. In any event it is available from cereals!

DHA - in flax, chia and hemp. It's super easy to add chia to a smoothie or flax to porridge!

B12 - in cereals and nutritional yeast (nutritional yeast makes an amazing vegan mac and cheese! Totally recommend)

CoQ10 - humans produce this themselves unless there is a genetic deficiency. In any event there is significantly more CoQ10 found in soybeans, grapeseed oil and canola oil than there is even if beef hearts, which are the most concentrated animal source.

I hope that helps! I don't actually have a problem with supplements myself but even if you disagree with them there are plenty of whole food plant sources for these things!

BustopherJones I suppose aye if you’ve grown up learning to cook that way it probably is easier. I grew up on frozen specials lol so not good, but I eat mostly fresh now except for the odd chicken dipper etc. I think chopping boards are a chef thing really. My nan used to buy us the toys separate so we could get the collections lol

MyOtherUsernameisaPun
If anyone is interested in environmental issues you might be interested to learn that just giving up beef would reduce your environmental impact more than giving up your car!

Pets have the same environmental impact as 13.6 million cars. maybe we should give up pets?

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/carbon-footprint-animal-dogs-cats-america-study-meat-vegetarian-a7878086.html

@reddington
And who the f*ck are YOU to take part in the needless murder of animals?? Surely can see you are the one in the wrong here!
What you are participating in is absolutely abhorrent and disgusting.

By expressing my opinion I'm not killing anyone, nor am I paying for someone to do it for me, YOU are.

@BoneyBackJefferson
Maybe we should give up owning pets!
But that's not the point, there's still no excuse to eat meat.

@QuackPorridgeBacon
It's easy to whip up a vegetarian meal, too.
Today I had mashed potatoes, baked beans, veg and veggie sausages. The only difference is my sausages aren't a group one carcinogen!

OP, I agree it's hypocritical. It's maybe though a query about what love means. I think love means cherishing and caring for the other, so if you are happy for that other to die prematurely out of your own desires, it can't be love. But I suppose it's less hypocritical if people are honest that they love some animals but don't care about the ones they eat as they like the taste. I agree to a point that high welfare meat is better, but it's still being bred to be killed and eaten, which is not a fate I would want for myself or anyone I love.

The b12 argument is old and has been debunked a million times. Move on

Its old and its still true. You have to take supplements or be deficient, there is no debunking to be done, its fact.

But that's not the point, there's still no excuse to eat meat

We don't need an excuse to eat meat.

Curiousmoi Wow, calm down. You seem a bit out of touch really. Why would I make veggie sausages? I like th starts of proper ones so to me if I’m going to eat vegetarian food I wouldn’t want fake substitutes. Don’t get me wrong I’ve eaten things like that before and enjoyed it but I wouldn’t choose it for a standard meal. I’m on about other things that vegans would eat that I would have no clue of or how to make them. I’ve never understood why vegans etc would eat a fake sausage. If you don’t like meat just stick with veg and other things. If you’ve gone from meat to veggie then I get maybe missing that meat taste.

Of course you can be an animal lover and eat meat. I was, for many years. I'm now a strict vegetarian, but I don't preach at anyone, and I don't expect anyone to preach at me.

If you feel healthier eating less or no meat, then let that speak for itself. People will notice. I believe that one day we will as a society eat a lot less meat than we do now, but calling people disgusting murderers etc won't get us there any quicker.

I don’t know what meat tastes like but I like some veggie sausages. It’s just a shape. You have to shape meat into a circle to make a burger so why not shape some beans, vegetables and spices? I do think being able to share the same sort of thing as everyone else is nice - it’s a bit of a shame when you’re at a pub and everyone has burgers and instead of a veggie burger they have a risotto.

@QuackPorridgeBacon your nan was a true pioneer!

I'm an animal lover but I also enjoy eating meat and I'm not a hypocrite. I'm fed up of self righteous vegans and vegetarians trying to shove it down our throats that what we eat is oh so wrong and we shouldn't eat meat we should live off sunshine and organic unicorn shit. You eat what you want and I'll eat what I want. You lot are as bad as bible bashers climb back in to your organic man made biodegradable box and stop being a goady fucker.