To think you can be an animal lover and eat meat?

[MyOtherUsernameisaPun]

I know I'm going to be flamed, have donned protective gear...

But I think that it's hypocritical to eat meat and claim to be an animal lover. That isn't to say meat eaters don't deeply love their pets - I fully accept that they do! But I think that in those cases they only love certain animals, not animals generally.

We know that pigs are far more intelligent than dogs. We know that cows form close social bonds with specific individuals within the herd. We know enough to confidently state that there is no reason to separate pets from any other species except that we are conventionally accustomed to doing so.

I think everyone is free to make their own choices and whether or not I approve of them is totally irrelevant. But I don't think there is any logical grounds for a meat eater to claim that they are an animal lover when they're happy for some kinds of animals to suffer and be killed.

@Poopooweewee I agree wholeheartedly. I’ve been vegan and before that vegetarian for most of my life and in my 40s am in fine fettle. The ‘need meat’ crowd though are getting fewer I hope and if the heart disease doesn’t get them maybe the cognitive dissonance will. Hope springs.

"And to those saying we ‘need’ meat in our diet; I can categorically confirm that we do not. I’ve been vegan for 15 years, veggie 15 years prior to that. I’m mid 40s and look amazing, I never get sick. I’m full of life, vigour and happiness."

Of course you are

And if you had a juicy steak from time to time, who knows which heights of beauty, intelligence, and health you would attain.

Alas, the world will have to content itself with the shining beacon of health & beauty that you are at present.

@poopooweewee

You massively lost the moral high ground with the final paragraph in your rant... I mean post. Low point being when you used a disablist term with the words “flesh guzzling” in front of it. And I’m on your “side” as it were.

"uneducated, flesh guzzling morons. Sure, consume the muscle and tissue of fellow earth dwellers"

Hahahaha

I love guzzling the flesh of fellow Earth dwellers. And unless you would like to propose life forms evolved on another planet, assuming we would even be able to digest them, they will continue to be my #1 favorite food in the foreseeable future.

I don't give a shit what you eat or smoke, given your unhinged rant. a healthy attitude towards stuff that is none of your business that you might like to emulate.

For those saying you need meat... nope! There is no nutrient in meat that can't be accessed from a plant-based source. And when it comes from plants, you don't need to worry about the carcinogenic aspect of it either!

There are loads of really healthy vegetarians and vegans who have been so for years and are clearly thriving - look at Jennifer Lopez who is practically ageing in reverse, or Woody Harrelson and Brad Pitt!

It's also a lot cheaper. I've saved a huge amount of money since I stopped eating meat

Well said @beehive. And all without insulting anyone or using disabilist words .

I like animals and I care about their welfare. I do, however, eat some meat and other animal products. Though I don't think it is wrong to eat animals (many other species are carnivores or omnivores too), I do think it is wrong to make them suffer. In practice this means that I only buy the highest welfare meat and dairy that I can e.g. free-range/ grass-fed/ organic.

In practice most people are species-ist to a greater or lesser extent. E.g. most (British) people wouldn't eat dogs, but many would have no problem training their dog using pieces of sausage made from factory-farmed pigs.

@Lweji
Sorry, complete brain fart. I meant to say that plants don't have a nervous system.
I grow my own tomatoes and am gluten-free so make my own bread!
Either way, tomatoes are part of nature, humans killing animals is not.

For those saying you need meat... nope! There is no nutrient in meat that can't be accessed from a plant-based source

Oh yeah? Carnosine, creatine, heme-iron, vit d3, DHA, taurine, B12, CoQ10......sure you supplement but its not the same thing.

Either way, tomatoes are part of nature, humans killing animals is not

How is it not?

Then there is IronMansIronButt claiming to know exactly what and how animals think and process emotions

Completely the opposite in fact, I clearly said we don't know. But we do know that they don't have complex human emotions. Because they aren't human.
The pp said "animals have the same emotions we do" which patently absurd. They do not.

"tomatoes are part of nature, humans killing animals is not."

Really now Because there is no such thing called The Food Chain, no animal ever eats other animals, humans are not animals or omnivores?

You see, this is the sort of thing that invites ridicule. If you say "I don't want to eat animals, 'coz I love them too much" nobody would say a thing because that's your personal preference, but if you say humans eating animals is not natural then you can't expect to be taken seriously.

You know what's not natural? It's people eating frigging spiraluna (= Bacteria colony! Wtf) because their vegan ideology doesn't let them get essential B12 the natural way: Eating animal products!

Spirulina only gives you pseudo-B12 anyway, which is biologically inactive. Waste of time and money (plus its vile!)

make my own bread

But bread is less natural than rare steak.
No non-human ape ever has made bread.

I am an animal lover but I also like the taste of meat and fish, and dairy products. I don't each much meat and eat loads of vegetarian meals but would find it a complete pain in the arse and not remotely worth it to stop eating it entirely.

I also don't give a toss whether someone thinks this makes me selfish or a hypocrite.

Curiousmoi of corse killing for meat is part of nature. How on earth can you think it’s not? We didn’t eat it as often before we produced it the way we do now but it was still eaten. Plenty of animals hunt and kill for meat. We are just smarter and less cruel about it now. Obviously some places aren’t nice but I make sure I buy free range etc and local so I know I’m fine with what I’m eating.

There are also dome misconceptions about plants.

This is what I meant about modern tomatoes not being natural.
We don't eat these pea sized fruits. We eat bred and selected varieties that need artificial environments to survive and grow.

www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/why-wild-tiny-pimp-tomato-so-important-180955911/

I wouldn’t have a bloody burger, that wouldn’t be safe. Needs to be cooked nicely through and no pink

Try telling the French that! Love a nice pink burger, has to be freshly minced though!

reddington I don’t have a mincer so will stick to non pink burgers lol I don’t even like pink in a steak. I like my meat fully cooked, want to be sure it won’t be jumping off the plate lol

I can admit to being a hypocrite. I want to see better animal welfare and I don't think it's sustainable for the planet and pork growth. I don't eat a huge amount of meat and we try to do vegetarian meals as much as possible as we know it's healthier, but since we've had a baby we've gotten lazy and not made as much effort.

Anyone who won't eat burgers can pass them to me

I used to eat meat rare and here in France, that means the meat barely met the pan. You stick the fork into the steak and it goes "Moooo" But these days I eat meat pink and juicy (called à point down here).

Interesting study about correlates of male height.

It's particularly strong for protein in diet, and for animal protein rather than plant based (although they don't seem to have accounted for beans et al sources).

"Most importantly, our results indicate that plant-based diets are not able to provide the optimal stimuli for physical growth, even if the intake of total protein and total energy poses no problem. In fact, we observed a difference of 10 cm (174 cm vs. 184 cm) between nations relying on the surplus of plant and animal proteins, respectively32. A low consumption of proteins that correlate highly with height can explain the seemingly perplexing, small stature in the developed countries of East Asia and the Muslim oil superpowers."

"Besides low protein quality, a frequently forgotten limiting factor of plant-based diets is their low nutritional density, with a disproportionate load of ‘empty calories’ from starch and oils that must be consumed per unit of a key nutrient. The countries with the highest plant protein intake already belong to the most obese in the world, particularly among females33, so it is not likely that the deficit of protein quality could easily be compensated by protein quantity."

"Last, but not least, our study can potentially question the current dietary recommendations regarding the intake of essential amino acids, because some foods that score highly according to the new FAO standard 2007 do not appear among the best correlates of height. In fact, recent studies indicate that even the contemporary total protein requirements for children are underestimated (Elango et al., 2011)34, which also agrees with our data, because we do not observe any levelling-off in many graphic comparisons of male height and protein consumption." (unlike for wheat protein, never mind rice)

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1570677X16300065

I don’t even like pink in a steak. I like my meat fully cooked

Might as well not bother eating steak then! Lol!

I’m mid 40s and look amazing, I never get sick. I’m full of life, vigour and happiness.

It's a good job you don't get ill...since I presume a vegetarian wouldn't ingest manmade prescription medications? Purely on the principle that animals have to be the original test subjects in their creation?
Just so you aren't a giant hypocrite, I mean.

@CoteDAzur
Do you know where animals get their B12? Some is produced in their gut, but the majority of it is given to them as a supplement!
Over 98% of B12 supplements produced are fed to animals!!
Why not skip the murder, and get it straight from a supplement seeing as that's how animals are getting it...

Humans used to have easy access to B12 as cobalt was present in the soil and in rivers, this would transfer to their veg. That is why we need supplements now-because pesticides are getting rid of all the B12 present in the soil.
The b12 argument is old and has been debunked a million times. Move on.