should I shave?

[TotHappy]

This has been niggling at me for a while.

I'm 31. Been with dh nearly 14 years. My shaving routine used to be:
Underarms - most days, might get a bit stubbly if I left it for a few. Probably take care to shave them before baring them to swim/sunbathe.
Legs - only really bothered for a night out, so maybe shaved once a month. More in summer, but def not every day - maybe for an 'event' or a beach day. An event might include a sexy night in, but they certainly weren't smooth at all times and I didn't care.
Vag - never. Or maybe once or twice as an experiment, never liked it, hate the feeling, find it uncomfortable plus too much faff.

Then when I got pregnant (daughter is nearly 2 now), stopped shaving pretty much everything. Initially, morning sickness and generally not leaving house, later size of bump. Sexy times were non existent anyway as dh stopped sexual activity once I was pregnant - which I was very upset about.
Shaving has never resumed post partum - I will still occasionally do it for a night out/special event but not always, and of course nights out are a lot rarer now with DD. My solitary baths when I could quickly do my underarms are long gone, DD baths with me so no razors in the bath, and when I do get the odd solitary bath I cba with how long it would take as underarms now a good inch long.
I just don't care any more, even as much as I used to, about what people think. If I go swimming or to the beach, I dont feel the need to de-hair first. I think this is a lot to do with giving birth in front of five strangers - personal things somehow seem a lot less personal!

My issue is dh has brought up me not shaving a few times and I feel very uncomfortable about him doing that. After an argument once he said, as part of a rang about how I dont care, 'you dont even shave your legs anymore', quickly followed up by 'not that that's important, but it just shows that you dont care', to which I was as I was never in the permanently-hairless-legs crew, ever, and in any case the reason I had reduced the number of leg shaves was because I had reduced the numbers of nights out, end of!

The other day, he was giving me a foot massage and commented 'whoa, how hairy are your legs?!' I think I responded with a and a 'quite hairy', and he followed up with 'what about your armpits? Have you shaved those lately?' Or similar.

He has also said several times in the past that he prefers a shaven vag. I've said I dont like the feel of it so dont plan to dp that regularly, but have on the very odd occasion got a bikini wax/Californian wax. Last time he didn't even notice as he wasn't up for sex for the whole 6 weeks it was evident, so that was a waste!

I feel really quite miffed that he thinks I should shave because he prefers it. I suppose I have two questions:
A) AIBU to manage my body hair in any way I want without reference to him and
B) what do most people here do? I know most of my friends do shave with some regularity. I know my mum never did. So possibly a generational thing, but as I grew up with my mum as a role model, I feel totally comfortable either way. I feel very uncomfortable with the comments I've sometimes seen on social media about not shaving being 'dirty' or 'unhygienic'.

Thoughts??

blunt as you get older you do build more self acceptance, more self confidence, but you don't turn off the pressure automatically aged 25.

The kind of societal expectation I see is:

Every woman on TV who is being portrayed as successful, powerful, desirable is shaven.

Even adverts that include the use of shaving equipment don't show actual body hair.

Constant references in movies to it being disgusting/gross/you've let yourself go for women to have body hair.

This thread is full of women telling other women that their body hair is gross.

Real life conversations where women moan about letting themselves go because they haven't shaved.

It is the same (though obviously far less important) as the mechanism by which people of colour are taught that they shouldn't have the same aspirations as white people. Nobody is on TV actually saying black people are only good at sport...but if every movie, every TV program, every advert only ever portrays successful/powerful people as white, and any incidental black characters happen to be ace at basketball, then the message gets internalised. Chuck in some racist abuse on the streets or at school and there you have it.

Bluntness- how many times have we read on here..

Should I let my dd cut her hair? I don’t want her to stand out and be bullied..

Should I shave my primary age dd’s arms? I don’t want her to be picked on for being hairy...

How do i help my dd fit in? If she stands out she’ll be bullied...

And you say societal pressure doesn’t exist? You just need to look at school age girls to see it absolutely does.

If you are a 14 yo girl and all the boys at school are watching porn and saying how disgusting pubic hair is, what are you going to do? When you get your first boyfriend are you going to shave or risk him telling everyone about your disgusting pubes?

I have a girl who, lets say is “different”. I posted years ago about her being picked on for her choice to wear trousers to school. They replies? “Just let her wear a dress”. She has to conform to everyone else.

We all conform in millions of ways we don’t realise. It is incredibly difficult to stand up and go against the crowd.

Its hard to go against the pack...and it SHOULD be hard...because its what stops us from randomly stealing or murdering as well as causing us to shave legs or all wear this years 'in' colours.

We just need to be a bit more selective about what things are covered by the conformity drive.

Knocking antisocial behaviour on the head..fine.

Forcing teenage girls into anal sex against their wishes...not fine.

I'll hold my hands up and say I am a woman who shaves SOLELY because of societal pressure. I don't enjoy doing it and I don't care about being smooth for my own personal satisfaction. I shave simply to avoid the negative judgement that unshaven women attract.

Yes, I am weak. You can call me pathetic if you like. I am honestly trying to get up the courage to change my habits. But this thread (and many others like it, and pretty much the whole of society) prove beyond doubt that my suspicions that I would be negatively judged for showing up at the swimming pool with hairy legs and pits are 100% correct. Maybe nobody would say anything to my face. But I KNOW people would look and think I was dirty/lazy/gross and I just haven't been able to get over that yet.

If I felt that kind of negative pressure from my partner I also would be very hurt. I don't shave for him, I don't shave for myself. I only shave for the general public. God, how sad is that. I really don't think my attitude is terribly uncommon, though. I do think a lot of women aren't really honest about it.

Hakarl- hear hear!

When and if i do shave, i shave because of what others might think or say. I know it isn’t socially acceptable for a woman to have hairy pits/legs/bikin line, and it’s easier to just do it than face stares, comments and questions.

If i don’t shave i stay covered.

Yes🤪My Son's Dad asked my why i nolonger Staightened my hair(Challing him say get your entire Body WAXED one Arpit was emough for me!)My response to my Ex-Partner,we are on good speaking terms ...I did not Pack Hair Staightners while en route to A London Trauma Center VIA Air Ambulance !!)See if he can complete the Challinge withot cryng!!!

Bluntness- just because you have the strength and self confidence to resist societal pressures, can you really not accept that many don’t.

Janey, but it’s not talked about in the language of fashion or trends. Nobody says “This season, I think I’ll have an asymmetric bob, buy some dungarees a pair of wedges and some floaty tops and get a Brazilian”
The language is almost always about shame and grossness and hygiene.

Beards are all about fashion, I agree. But are a different thing. More comparable to hair styles than pubis shaving.

Reallyanotherone, i specifically stated I understood for young adults, I'm unsure of the point of your post.

And for the others shaving when they don't want to due to "societal pressure" then you need to understand you're doing things you don't want to for fear of negative judgement from random strangers. Have you ever even experienced negative judgement from random strangers about your hairy legs?

Because I can assure you people will give you much less attention than you think. And for those that notice, most wont give a shit. For those that do , you're living your life to appease them when they are nothing to you and not worth it.

The decision to do it for those people is about you. It's not societal pressure, let's be honest. It's about you and a fear of negative judgement from a few random strangers. The problem is not the strangers, it's yours.

And it's not about having the strength or confidence to resist societal pressures, Becayse societal pressures is just some random strangers when you break it down. It's about not living your life to appease a handful of random folk you don't even know. When the overwhelming majority won't give a shit or even notice.

And no. I don't live my life doing things I don't want to do Becayse I'm scared some random might judge me. That's not strength or confidence. The issue is the opposite one. If you do things you don't want to Becayse some stranger may or may not judge you then that's lack of self esteem or anxiety and not healthy.

I shave, so DP doesnt feeling like he is flossing if he is ever down there.....

I shave my legs if I have them out in summer (rare). I wouldn't do it at all in an ideal world but don't have the self-confidence to go out with hairy legs on show (I work amongst very high-maintenance teens). When my two year old daughter asked me why I was shaving legs I didn't really know what to say and I hate that about myself. Ditto bikini line.

I shave my underarms and occasionally trim my pubic hair - but this is for comfort so is different.

My DP might have a preference and enjoy me being sometimes less hairy (which he is allowed to state) but he would never expect or demand it and would not be the man I thought he was if he did.

you need to understand you're doing things you don't want to for fear of negative judgement from random strangers

Yes, I know, that's exactly what I said . Although to be fair it's not just random strangers, also extended family, friends, neighbours, colleagues and acquaintances. Perhaps if it really was just strangers that I would definitely never interact with or see again then I would go for it. But actually there are a lot of people in my life that fall somewhere between the 'love me just as I am' and 'random stranger' points on the spectrum.

Doing things to try and avoid negative judgement from society, i.e. the general public, is the exact definition of doing something because of societal pressure. Yes, it's a self-esteem and confidence issue CREATED by societal pressure. I'm quite 'beauty standards non conforming' in most other ways (no make-up, ungroomed eyebrows, loads of undyed grey hair). But yeah the thought of appearing in public with hairy armpits makes me feel anxious. That's a particularly strong pressure as I experience it. It's definitely not healthy, I certainly agree with that. But it's not something inherent in my personality, it's something that has been done to me by the culture I grew up in. I wish I could break out of it and I hope I will soon, though.

I've never experienced first-hand negative judgement of my own hairy legs. Because I bloody shave them to avoid it. But I've experienced a shit load of negative judgement of hairy (female) legs in general. I've experienced loads of negative comments both online and in real life conversations (and in the media). Ever since I was a very young girl I've been very much aware that women with hairy legs are gross. The first time I saw a woman with full-on hairy legs and armpits (not just a bit of stubble) I thought it was gross. Because I was about 11 and hadn't thought critically about the matter at all, just accepted the message that society fed me.

Don't tell me unshaven women aren't negatively judged and it's all in their heads. It's patently not true, as evidenced in this very thread and my own life experiences.

Apologies, I haven't RTFT, but this article, if it hasn't already been posted, may be of interest.

Harkal its not weak to feel and respond to societal pressures...its normal! See any of my other posts for why.

bluntness yes I have had men point at me and say I am disgusting at the swimming pool, while they too were sporting hairy pits. More than once. I also got properly stared at while buying some shopping on the way back from playing sport because my hairy legs were in view. Again from a man who was also wearing shorts with far far hairier legs than mine. Eventually I asked if I could help him in some way...he just muttered sorry and walked off.

its not weak to feel and respond to societal pressures...its normal! See any of my other posts for why.

This, absolutely. Often we do not even realise we're responding to societal pressures because it's normal.

I wish people would stop describing women as ‘bleating’ and ‘screeching’ when you don’t agree with them, this is the language of misogyny.

“I wish people would stop describing women as ‘bleating’ and ‘screeching’ when you don’t agree with them, this is the language of misogyny.”

Yes it’s a classic silencing technique. Often used by people complaining at great length about being silenced!

YANBU in the sense that it's your choice, not his, but he may feel you no longer think it's worth making an effort to look nice for him. My DH neglects aspects of his appearance despite knowing I mind, and although I accept this is his right, IMHO it's also my right to feel he can't be bothered any more, and even to feel slightly turned off as a result. Just saying.

I shave, so DP doesnt feeling like he is flossing if he is ever down there.....

I have seen/heard variations of this sentence time and time again. Hmm, funny how for god knows how many years, men gave women (with a bush) oral sex and they weren’t all up in arms about it or walking around with pubes stuck in their teeth!

its not weak to feel and respond to societal pressures...its normal!

Thank you for saying that. I do know it's normal, for obvious evolutionary reasons, but I still feel that I should be able to intellectually override the pressure in this case as I'm not really happy to be going along with it. Even though it's just a little thing, I think women who don't shave are quite brave. Not rescuing a baby from a burning building brave, but a different kind of personal bravery. I really respect it in a woman (having come a long way from my 11-year-old opinions).

More on topic, I think the point I would make is that on the 'love me just as I am' to 'random stranger' spectrum, your partner/spouse should definitely be at the 'love me just as I am' end. Which is why I understand the OP is upset at her partner's attitude and comments. I would find them hurtful as well.

I shave my underarm every other day
My legs probably every 3 days more so on summer.
My forearms every 3 days - they get very hairy and I don't like the look if it my DH thinks I'm a little weird
I keep my vagina area bearish

If I was single I probably wouldn't worry about the legs so much unless it was summer but otherwise probably the same.

That should be neatish not bearish

You've had men point at you at the swimming pool and you get 'properly' stared at because of your hairy legs? How very odd

Agree it's odd. Most folks just get on with their business and pay less attention than folks think.

However to be honest, arseholes exist everywhere and judge folks and can behave antisolcially , from making negative comments about a strangers weight on.

I don't consider these arseholes as representative of society, and I guess that's the differnce, the posters claiming societal pressure judge them as representative, I don't.

Hakarl it's very sad you feel your friends family and social circle are the sort of low life's to negatively judge you. I'm not sure what anyone can advise you on that. But as it's all encompassing I'm wonder if the issue really is them or if it's in your head.