should I shave?

[TotHappy]

This has been niggling at me for a while.

I'm 31. Been with dh nearly 14 years. My shaving routine used to be:
Underarms - most days, might get a bit stubbly if I left it for a few. Probably take care to shave them before baring them to swim/sunbathe.
Legs - only really bothered for a night out, so maybe shaved once a month. More in summer, but def not every day - maybe for an 'event' or a beach day. An event might include a sexy night in, but they certainly weren't smooth at all times and I didn't care.
Vag - never. Or maybe once or twice as an experiment, never liked it, hate the feeling, find it uncomfortable plus too much faff.

Then when I got pregnant (daughter is nearly 2 now), stopped shaving pretty much everything. Initially, morning sickness and generally not leaving house, later size of bump. Sexy times were non existent anyway as dh stopped sexual activity once I was pregnant - which I was very upset about.
Shaving has never resumed post partum - I will still occasionally do it for a night out/special event but not always, and of course nights out are a lot rarer now with DD. My solitary baths when I could quickly do my underarms are long gone, DD baths with me so no razors in the bath, and when I do get the odd solitary bath I cba with how long it would take as underarms now a good inch long.
I just don't care any more, even as much as I used to, about what people think. If I go swimming or to the beach, I dont feel the need to de-hair first. I think this is a lot to do with giving birth in front of five strangers - personal things somehow seem a lot less personal!

My issue is dh has brought up me not shaving a few times and I feel very uncomfortable about him doing that. After an argument once he said, as part of a rang about how I dont care, 'you dont even shave your legs anymore', quickly followed up by 'not that that's important, but it just shows that you dont care', to which I was as I was never in the permanently-hairless-legs crew, ever, and in any case the reason I had reduced the number of leg shaves was because I had reduced the numbers of nights out, end of!

The other day, he was giving me a foot massage and commented 'whoa, how hairy are your legs?!' I think I responded with a and a 'quite hairy', and he followed up with 'what about your armpits? Have you shaved those lately?' Or similar.

He has also said several times in the past that he prefers a shaven vag. I've said I dont like the feel of it so dont plan to dp that regularly, but have on the very odd occasion got a bikini wax/Californian wax. Last time he didn't even notice as he wasn't up for sex for the whole 6 weeks it was evident, so that was a waste!

I feel really quite miffed that he thinks I should shave because he prefers it. I suppose I have two questions:
A) AIBU to manage my body hair in any way I want without reference to him and
B) what do most people here do? I know most of my friends do shave with some regularity. I know my mum never did. So possibly a generational thing, but as I grew up with my mum as a role model, I feel totally comfortable either way. I feel very uncomfortable with the comments I've sometimes seen on social media about not shaving being 'dirty' or 'unhygienic'.

Thoughts??

Bluntness you are the one being ridiculous. Why then is it mostly only women who seem to have a preference for smooth hair free skin? Are we programmed differently to men to like smooth lady things like silk ribbons and rose petals? I’m not saying women shouldn't shave, I SHAVE TOO, I’m saying that they should at least acknowledge why it’s seen as the norm and support others who want to be hairy. I understand a very small minority of people have a hair phobia and I think some of them are posting here but hair on a woman is no more or less offensive than hair on a man. I don’t want my dd thinking not removing hair equals being unattractive, yet that is what society views it as. And unless they have some sort of fetish I don’t know how anyone can possibly say with a straight face they enjoy having their fanny hairs ripped out .

Janey, I’m sorry to use the word stupid but honestly saying we should never examine why people do stuff....it just is a bit isn’t it? Short-sighted maybe a better choice but ultimately I stand by my point that I don’t want to live in a world where everyone just does things and no one ever asks why. Society wouldn’t have progressed very much at all if we’d all done that.

I’ve never met a man who removes all his body hair yet it’s now seen as the complete norm for women.

Just because you haven’t, doesn’t mean they don’t. Many younger men now remove their body hair, and many women prefer men to at least trim pubic hair. Men have also had a history where their body hair has been demeaned - how many comments/jokes are there about men with hairy backs, how unsightly it is? Or on the opposite side, how embarrassed men get at losing their hair and how some spend thousands getting it back.

There are social expectations on both sides on how people should look. There have always been fashions on body hair, and yes it was usually only accessible to the rich. The difference these days is that ‘class’ doesn’t dictate trends so much, as products are available to the masses. So ‘everyone’ can follow body trends, rather than just the elite.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with removing all or no body hair. It is wrong to demand it, but you can’t make someone find it attractive either. Some here say ‘but my husband doesn’t care!’. That’s your partner, and it doesn’t make them a saint for looking beyond physical attributes. It’s ok for others to have preferences one way or another, as long as the issue isn’t forced.

Re. “Liking the smooth feeling” for hair removal fans..

How? Back when i removed hair i got about a day of that “smooth feeling”, then it’s rough stubble, ingrowing hairs and itchy regrowth.

One of the reasons i stopped shaving was because i didn’t like the constant rough stubble!

"Screeching"

Hmm. Interesting which "side" of this discussion is the one where "screeching" seems to be happening........

Assassinated, I'm quite willing to think about these things, I'm not fixed in my ideas. It depends who and how though; reasonable chat, questions, all fine - insults and self-aggrandising and dictating who is worthy of feminism, not at all. I'm not referring to you, I'm responding to you - I'm reminding myself to ignore obnoxious twats.

As always, some posters can make you think, some have absolutely zero skills to engage and could never influence.

"Well can you try to get your point across without calling other women's opinions 'stupid'?"

Nobody's opinions are stupid. Believing that we are never influenced by societal expectations/pressures and refusing to even consider why we do their things we do is a bit, surely?

I was just waiting for the ‘some men remove body hair’ comment. Yes some men will but it is not expected and it’s pretty rare that a man will be completely hairless. I’m under 30 and have younger siblings and friends so I’m not completely out of touch with what young people do and I’ve never seen or met a completely hairless man. There isn’t some widespread trend for it as there is with women. Yes there is more pressure on young men now to look a certain way than there has been in the past (not a good thing either) but hair removal still comes pretty low on the list. You can not possibly argue that men have the same expectations placed upon their bodies. You deny thousands of years of history of women’s bodies being policed if that’s what you are saying.

I let myself slip during pregnancy mostly because I can’t reach my ladybits and my legs (although he did offer) and armpits usually take a backseat too. We joke about it together though - same as when we go camping. It’s kind of an ongoing cavelady joke. He doesn’t care, but he does prefer me shaved for sexy times from what I can gather (as in, his reaction to my body etc) and I think that’s important - so as a general rule, I shave. It takes about 5 minutes and if you keep shaving your ladybits it won’t be as bad as letting it grow out and having to keep doing it.

Anyway, if he let his manbush get really over grown I’d not like to go near it too much either :/ I like him to keep it trimmed. He gets actual neck hair when he doesn’t have his hair cut regularly and that legit grosses me out. Of course I wouldn’t be turned off as such if he didn’t but I much prefer it done, and i would likely drop subtle hints like your husband clearly is.

You’re WELL within your rights if you don’t want to though, never ever feel forced... however if you just can’t be arsed then it’s a different story, and one you need to probably discuss, as he fell in lust with somebody who shaved

You can not possibly argue that men have the same expectations placed upon their bodies.

I will never deny that women have had greater demands/expectations made of them over history. However, you completely glossed over two examples I gave of men’s personal hair being seen as an issue. Do you not agree that ‘hairy men’ have been looked at with some distain over the last few years?

dictating who is worthy of feminism

No one has said that. That’s all you, which implies that actually you do acknowledge that how women are expected to look is a feminist issue so I’m not sure why you’re denying it? Very few people think wearing makeup/hair removal/wanting to dress the best for your figure would automatically bar you from being a feminist. There wouldn’t be many if they did. Very few women will eschew societal norms regarding their appearance, of course that doesn’t mean they can’t be feminists. It’s just about acknowledging and examining why people do certain things, and changing the fact that women are just expected to do stuff differently, often for no real reason or reasons they are comfortable with. There are about 30 million female bodies in the U.K. why on earth are we at a point where it’s now expected we will all follow certain beauty regimes?

"Do you not agree that ‘hairy men’ have been looked at with some distain over the last few years?"

Do you think it's likely that a man would be ashamed at the thought of a radiographer seeing his hairy back while Xraying his dislocated shoulder?

And most men do not have hairy backs. All women have pubic hair.

Do you not agree that ‘hairy men’ have been looked at with some distain over the last few years?

I know it’s become more common for men to have their back hair waxed, I’ve seen some reference within modern culture to hairy backs being seen as unappealing, yes. But it’s still not expected that men will be hairless. It certainly wouldn’t cause an international media storm like Julia Roberts armpit hairs did.

I have a male friend who removes his body hair.

The amount of people who have asked in hushed tones if he’s gay...

I had an ex who used to “joke” about how sexy he would find it if i shaved everything.

Much like the suggestion of anal sex, my reply was “you first”.

Funnily enough he never took me up on it...

Much like the suggestion of anal sex, my reply was “you first”.

Brilliant! 🤣

I dont randomly comment at other times 'how hairy is your face?!'

Maybe you could start doing that?

I really can't understand this whole "societal expectations " bleating. Society is the people you surround yourself with. No one jumps out the tv and tells you what to do. Who the fuck are the people that comprise "society" that people are jumping to do what they expect? Do you mean strangers whose opinion shouldn't count?

If the people around you expect you to do things you don't want, then find different people.but don't bleat on about societal expectations.

And yes, women do shave because they prefer the results. Get over it. It's really fucking mysogynistic to turn us into a gender who just does as we are expected. You might live in fear of a strangers judgement, but credit the rest of us with enough intelligence to make our own decisions to do what we wish to do.

It's the bloody same on the make up threads, oh. Society expects you to wear make up and you're too stupid to know it. Total bullshit. We do it primarily because we want to.

support others who want to be hairy

How do you even do that? Shout you go girl on the street? Ask your mates what they do with their pubes? How the heck do you support someone who wants to be hairy?

And if you don't find it a good look, you don't find it a good look. As said, I don't like hairy backs on blokes, should I support them too and lie about it? It's been said repeatedly be as hairy as you want. Don't live in fear of strangers judgement, but also don't try to dictate how others feel about body hair, make up, clothing choices, or whatever.

Women have right to chose. The hairy folks don't need "support" ffs. It's just some friggen body hair.

Bluntness - do you really believe that nobody is ever influenced by societal expectations? Or that all they have to do to not be is to just not be?

Out of interest, do you have teenage children?

bluntness do you really not understand or accept the concept of peer pressure?

Its a very VERY powerful force in all social based animals including human beings.

In most studies done it is more important in determining what people will decide that any other single factor. It beats money, it beats morality, it beats legality, I mean everything.

What is the point of denying the totally obvious...that human beings are social animals and are strongly driven to conform to whatever norms of behaviour surround them.

Its not weakness, its not brainwashing, its not feeble mindedness, it is responding to the evolutionary advantage brought by acting together as a society rather than as individuals.

Responding to peer pressure isn't a negative thing...in fact you would likely would be classed as a sociopath if you didn't. Its only a problem when it begins to influence people into making decisions that aren't in their interests.

Feeling like you should shave ONLY because otherwise 'you aren't making an effort' is a small issue. Feeling like you have to accept anal sex when you don't want to because you think that's what you have to do to be considered attractive or keep your boyfriend is clearly more of a problem.

There is a good reason that teenagers are more susceptible to these peer based messages than people in their 50s. We tend to have amassed enough experience to know that a guy who would dump us over hairy legs or refusing anal isn't worth keeping! But we really need to be careful to consider how much more vulnerable some in society are to peer messages than the average MNer.

People are allowed to have a preference without having to defend it. What is it with this place?

“People are allowed to have a preference without having to defend it. What is it with this place?”

Well, yes. But not usually on a thread discussing whatever it is.........

I have a 20 year old daughter.

I understand peer pressure as a young person. Not as an adult. No,

And if someone can explain to me who comprises society in the whole societal expectation thing then it would be helpful.

Because right now I just see it as strangers who don't matter, not your peers. For me who matters is the folks who I surround myself with. And I would chose not to surround myself with people who judge me negatively.

So who is this society that you're living in fear of. Who are these people that are dictating something as ridiculous as whether uou shave your legs or not.