should I shave?

[TotHappy]

This has been niggling at me for a while.

I'm 31. Been with dh nearly 14 years. My shaving routine used to be:
Underarms - most days, might get a bit stubbly if I left it for a few. Probably take care to shave them before baring them to swim/sunbathe.
Legs - only really bothered for a night out, so maybe shaved once a month. More in summer, but def not every day - maybe for an 'event' or a beach day. An event might include a sexy night in, but they certainly weren't smooth at all times and I didn't care.
Vag - never. Or maybe once or twice as an experiment, never liked it, hate the feeling, find it uncomfortable plus too much faff.

Then when I got pregnant (daughter is nearly 2 now), stopped shaving pretty much everything. Initially, morning sickness and generally not leaving house, later size of bump. Sexy times were non existent anyway as dh stopped sexual activity once I was pregnant - which I was very upset about.
Shaving has never resumed post partum - I will still occasionally do it for a night out/special event but not always, and of course nights out are a lot rarer now with DD. My solitary baths when I could quickly do my underarms are long gone, DD baths with me so no razors in the bath, and when I do get the odd solitary bath I cba with how long it would take as underarms now a good inch long.
I just don't care any more, even as much as I used to, about what people think. If I go swimming or to the beach, I dont feel the need to de-hair first. I think this is a lot to do with giving birth in front of five strangers - personal things somehow seem a lot less personal!

My issue is dh has brought up me not shaving a few times and I feel very uncomfortable about him doing that. After an argument once he said, as part of a rang about how I dont care, 'you dont even shave your legs anymore', quickly followed up by 'not that that's important, but it just shows that you dont care', to which I was as I was never in the permanently-hairless-legs crew, ever, and in any case the reason I had reduced the number of leg shaves was because I had reduced the numbers of nights out, end of!

The other day, he was giving me a foot massage and commented 'whoa, how hairy are your legs?!' I think I responded with a and a 'quite hairy', and he followed up with 'what about your armpits? Have you shaved those lately?' Or similar.

He has also said several times in the past that he prefers a shaven vag. I've said I dont like the feel of it so dont plan to dp that regularly, but have on the very odd occasion got a bikini wax/Californian wax. Last time he didn't even notice as he wasn't up for sex for the whole 6 weeks it was evident, so that was a waste!

I feel really quite miffed that he thinks I should shave because he prefers it. I suppose I have two questions:
A) AIBU to manage my body hair in any way I want without reference to him and
B) what do most people here do? I know most of my friends do shave with some regularity. I know my mum never did. So possibly a generational thing, but as I grew up with my mum as a role model, I feel totally comfortable either way. I feel very uncomfortable with the comments I've sometimes seen on social media about not shaving being 'dirty' or 'unhygienic'.

Thoughts??

No worries, Juells, I have form for that myself but with no excuse.

I hope that I'll never be so derogatory about any woman's body because I don't subscribe to that notion whatsoever, so it would be an extremely 'off day' for me if I did. :)

Yes, women in various cultures have always removed their body hair.

What I am questioning Is the suggestion that there is a timeline from ancient times to England in the 1980s. I fail to see how the fact that the women who modeled for naked sculptures in Ancient Rome mY have removed their pubic hair has anyhing to do with the fact that in England in the 1980s it went from niche to normal in the space of a couple of years. A couple of years that coincided with the beginning of the porn explosion.

Incidentally, I obviously don’t have a problem with women shaving for their own sexual pleasure . My issue is with them feeling obliged to do it for someone else’s. And with the attitude, illustrated only too clearly on this thread, that an unmodified woman’s body is smelly, disgusting, unclean, unhygienic and ugly. The attitude that makes women ashamed at the thought of HCPs seeing their unshaven genitals.

And there is a particular hypocrisy on these threads. Posters slam women for telling other women what to do with their bodies and then go on to say things like “I don’t care what other people do. I think pubic hair is disgusting and unhygienic, but each to their own”

In other words “if you want to leave your disgusting and unhygienic pubic hair on, it’s up to you. But you wouldn’t catch me being ugly and smelly.”

Maybe, Millicent, just maybe, women should stop telling other women that they shouldn't be doing x, y, z to their bodies and certainly not as stridently as you and others do. That way, people might feel more able to confine their comments to their own bodies and not apply those strictures to other people.

Stupid, unthinking people make disgraceful comments about other people's bodies and it isn't confined to hair removal either. Take it up with the posters that do it. I don't disagree that comments about anybody else's body need to be shot down. I see very few posters actually doing that though. Odd. This issue seems to be the touchpaper one - and the only one.

I personally don't care if you have a problem with me if I choose to pornify myself to kingdom come (if I wanted to) because it's none of your bloody business.

If we all were to live and let live on this very personal thing, and concede that each person has autonomy over their own bodies, then imagine... it would be fantastic!

Millicent, I can't believe you're new to these threads. I've never said that pubic hair is nasty or disgusting. I have however notably said, that it's 'cleaner for me'. That's right. For me. For my body chemistry and for my sense of wellbeing. I've been roundly criticised for it too.

I'm not going to apologise for that either. If other women want to take issue with how I personally feel about hair removal for myself, then that's on them, it's their sensitivity to overcome - or not - whichever they choose.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, there are some horrendous comments being made on mumnset, and they're left to stand. Why is there not a posse going after them? Feels lonely for me - I do it on every thread. Alone.

Lying- do you really think the "stridency" and "telling women what to do" comes from one side only? Women who do not shave are regularly called disgusting ,ugly, gross, unhygienic,lazy, smelly, letting themselves go. It is even implied that they are selfish for not doing what their partner wants. As I said- if a woman finds it a turn on herself then that's great. But very few women actually say that. Either because they don't, or more likely because it's a hard ting to admit, so the cleanliness line comes out.

Lying Witch go back and read page one.

The "disgusting smelly unhygenic" comment came first.

"It's really not relevant on this one"

If you get an infection because you choose to shave your pubic hair then its self inflicted.

Millicent, even if I were a porn star and doing it purely for men, having little or no regard for it myself, I'm still a person who is at liberty to decide that for myself, without being heckled for my choices.

If posters are calling women disgusting/ugly/gross/unhygienic/lazy/smelly/letting themselves go - or whatever - then presumably you'll take that up with said poster, yes? Because the rest of us are not doing that.

I think the limitations here are that everybody is actually posting their opinion as they see it. It's not kind of posters who would say the above but they're entitled to think what they want - and unfortunately, if they don't make it a personal attack - they can post it.

What I'm saying to you is tackle those - and I'll join you - but if you berate me when I'm absolutely not saying those horrible things, then we will be at odds instead of mostly being in agreement.

Helena see above.

I go months without shaving. I have literally never removed all of my pubic hair. My DH has a preference for less hair everywhere (he was part of that generation where removing all of your hair was normal but not trashy). The only comment he has ever passed on my hair is "You don't have to shave for my sake if you don't want to."

I will just leave that there for you to think about.

Helena, I'm not sure what point you're making. This thread is about hair removal or choosing not to remove hair. Nothing else is really comparable.

Most things that we do to ourselves, we elect to do or have done. If you want to call that 'self-inflicted' then so be it but I can't see what a minor infection from shaving (or waxing, just so you know) has to do with anything?

"If posters are calling women disgusting/ugly/gross/unhygienic/lazy/smelly/letting themselves go - or whatever - then presumably you'll take that up with said poster, yes? Because the rest of us are not doing that"
I think it would be hard to find a "pro shaver" (for want of a better term) who has not used at least one of those words.

Millicent - perhaps, but that doesn't mean that they're a) using them about other people and/or b) outright saying them about other people.

If I were to say that I would feel if I didn't wax... that is not insulting other women. It's a statement of fact as to how I would feel. Personally, me. Nobody else.

Back to taking it up with posters who DO use those terms to describe other women's hair removal/leaving habits.

Maybe more women shave their 'bits' now because oral sex is more enjoyed and popular, and it's not nice for the giver to be getting pubes stuck in their teeth.

LyingWitch I've just read the thread and have to question this:

"If I were to say that I would feel if I didn't wax... that is not insulting other women. It's a statement of fact as to how I would feel. Personally, me. Nobody else."

It might be a statement about how you feel but it doesn't exist in a vacuum.

A hypothetical (untrue) example: if I said that I was size 10 but would feel disgusting/ugly/gross/fat/slutty if I wore a bikini, I'd be sharing my own feelings about my own body, but you can't say that it doesn't also imply something about how I think of other women who do wear bikinis.

Even if I follow it up with 'but other people are free to do it if they want.'

"Maybe more women shave their 'bits' now because oral sex is more enjoyed and popular, and it's not nice for the giver to be getting pubes stuck in their teeth."
Oral sex has always been popular!

MaterialReality; Well yes, we don't live in a vacuum. But since you've so neatly brought a 'bikini' into it, there's a thread going at the moment where one or two posters have said exactly that - "I wouldn't but other people are free to do what they want".

Are you on that thread too? I was, I posted, "You go, girl" to the op. That was it. I'm never derogatory about other women's appearance and the only comments I make about them or to them are positive, complimenting them on something that I've been admiring.

If you want to be compassionate to women who choose to retain their pubic hair then be compassionate to all of the other women who are subjected to the "I wouldn't, but you're free to do what you want" schtick.

You won't get those comments deleted, as insidious and horrible as they are. Women are lousy sometimes - and it IS other women who do this and don't stick together. Sadly.

I also meant to post, MaterialReality that my first post on this thread was just a blanket statement of what I do, without explanation because I know that it's upsetting for some women if they're 'scooped up' by default. That's not what I want to do so I make a point of trying not to do it.

Op, glad you're getting it sorted and talking and the fact he shaved for you is a positive 💐

And for everyone else. Calm down.

And there is a whole difference between shaving to please someone and not really caring or seeing it as a big deal, and shaving to please someone because you are forced to. I see precious little of the latter. Just a couple of randoms maybe. So not sure what all the angst is about.

And if people think that hairy legs or pits on a woman looks or feels disgusting then that's fine. No one is saying the person is disgusting or ugly, just the look, feel of it etc is something they don't like. I think hairy backs on a bloke looks rather disgusting but I don't run around asking randoms to have it waxed off. I just look the other way.

We all have a right to do and feel as we please, so hairy back blokes have a right to get their top of and show it, I have a right to think it looks horrid and turn away , so what.

if you want to have hairy legs and pits, go for it and fill your boots. Just don't get your arse in your hands about it. No one frog marches you down to the local beauty salon and makes you have it waxed off. 🤣

"No one frog marches you down to the local beauty salon and makes you have it waxed off"

Well the Dorchester hotel made it very clear that it was dependent on the women working there keeping their jobs.

“No one frog marches you down to the local beauty salon and makes you have it waxed off. 🤣”

Do you genuinely think there is no societal pressure on women to conform? Or that people saying they think pubic hair is gross and unhygienic doesn’t sound judgemental?

Your marriage has many flaws and I don't think your body hair is one of them. The fact he is denying you a sex life for months at a time is completely out of order. Whether you shave your body or not is none of his business.

Tbh if my husband stopped caring about his appearance I’d say something and he would me.
We have 2 toddlers and we still manage to shave everyday and dress nicely and have hair done etc.
You’re perfectly entitled to do what you want with your body hair, but he is equally entitled not to find it attractive.

MillicentF HTH

Thank you! Interestingly no reference to removing pubic hair between the Ancient Romans and the 1970s.....