To wonder why people 'don't drive'

[ZX81user]

..medical conditions aside.It is such a useful life skill.
I think it is part of a parent's responsibility to get their teen througj their test.

Maybe in your world Outofsync but not in mine. I don't need family members to give me lifts. There's nowhere that I need to go that I can't get to on public transport around here.

BQ - yes I'm sure it's different depending on where you live. I think it's also worth bearing in mind that in LA, for example it is thought of as unacceptable not to drive because its considered dangerous. My cousin found this out when she moved to the US and tried to take her baby son for a walk in his pushchair.

OutofSync FYI, my husband can drive, and if I wanted a car, we'd have one.

We were offered a car when a family member died and no one else wanted it. Husband would have taken it if I wanted to. I said no thanks.

Husband also gets a car allowance as part of his salary. He's easy going and if I asked him to get a car, we could have one.

I actively don't want one. I actively dislike sitting in cars. I actively hate motorways, traffic jams, shitty car stereos, having to deal with garages, the smell and airlessness of cars, everything about them.

I will get in a taxi for a very early flight, and that's about it.

I regularly have to argue with people to NOT be given a lift to places. I don't want to sit in anyone's car. I'll walk and if I'm running late I'll jump on the bus. If I'm working or visiting friends in another city I'll relish a long distance train journey -space to move, walk around, drink coffee/wine, read, work on my laptop, look out of the window, let my thoughts drift, sleep, etc.

Stop projecting your own experience on to other people. Lots of us don't drive because we DON'T WANT TO GO IN CARS.

Er, there's no need to shout. And I think you should rethink your view that women have to learn to deal with men approaching them on public transport.

You are also projecting your experiences. I'm a lone parent.

Outofsync but I'm not living in LA nor will I ever be so that's completely moot.

The issue I have is when people start expressing disdain that I can't drive based on their own lifestyle and experience. Other people's situations have nothing to do with me so it's irrelevant. My circumstances don't require a driving license. Another person's might. People really need to stop telling us that having a driving license is so important when they don't live the same life we do.

I know you're a lone parent OutofSync You've complained multiple times that you have to drive your ex-husband around.

You, on the other hand, have ignored pretty much every point I've made in all of my long replies to you, and have deliberately distorted the points you have acknowledged, so I don't think I should waste any more time.

You're obviously just on a wind-up. Nos da.

Outofsync your ex husband is a cheeky fucker by the way. Just to point out that I am also a lone parent and my exh drives whereas I don't. Sometimes he will come to my house to pick up DS, other times I will meet him at the train station to do handovers. I think you having a bad experience with a non driver probably clouds how you view non drivers but honestly some of us aren't lazy buggers.

'Outofsync but I'm not living in LA nor will I ever be so that's completely moot'

It's not though - I think my point is that the environmental issue is worldwide.

Generally I agree that not all non license holders are CFs. If I lived in London I probably wouldn't drive.

Gorgon - it's a bit rich of you to accuse me of being on a wind up when you were the one who suggested that women who don't appreciate men harassing them on trains should toughen up what exactly did you expect?

Ten pages of discussion i cant believe it. If i could comfortably afford a car id probably get one. Getting a licence wasnt easy tho. Failed so many times. So expensive.
It is like people have to defend not having a very expensive non-essential possession

It really depends on where you live, and how much local authorities invest in public transport. As I posted before, I don't have a licence and feel no need to have one. Where I was brought up, in a rural area, the car was essential, because there was one bus an hour to the nearest big town and they stopped at 6pm. When I visit my rurally-based family, I have to ask for lifts of wait for the bus. (I don't visit often. The bus is ridiculously expensive) At a funeral in Coventry a couple of years ago, I begged lifts from family and friends, because the house, cemetery and wake were so far away from each other.

However, we have holidayed in Britain sans voiture and it was fine. Got around the Isle of Wight, West Cornwall, Devon and Kent perfectly well. Bus services were regular, and we paid for weekly tickets which usually worked out cheaper. We are going to the New Forest in July. We will be walking a lot and taxiing a bit. I can't wait.

I don't understand what the mystery is? Some people don't want to learn how to drive.
In my situation I have a driving phobia. It scares me to death - I can't do it. Why does that bother people so much? It's not Affecting them. I don't ask for lifts or favours from them.

VanGogh I'm a non car owner, and what you've said seems a bit contradictory. You've said you have no need of a licence but then talk about begging for lifts because of being in rural areas where public transport wasn't an option. That completely backs up every complaint about non drivers being CFs asking for lifts!!

If you choose not to get a licence (not tried-but-failed or medical reasons why not) then that's fine - but you're making it someone else's problem when you're begging for lifts

I don't own a car because there's no need in central London. I can get by quite happily without needing to drive. I did grow up in suburbia where I was dependent on a car (specifically my parents ferrying me around until I was 17 and got my licence) - and I have absolutely no desire to ever be in that position again. If I was forced into leaving the city and move to the suburbs (hell would freeze over before moving anywhere rural!) then obvs I would get a car.

But it doesn't really help the argument for non drivers when you're saying you'll try and cadge lifts off people because you don't drive.

I can drive but don't because I don't need to. If I have to go somewhere that public transport isn't an option then I'll have to rent a car because it's not fair to make my non car owning anyone else's problem. That's being a CF! (Renting a car is super easy will a Zip Car membership if needed - though I've never used mine yet)

If you don't think you have the need for a licence then you should be making your own way rather than begging for lifts. If you can't afford lessons then fair enough, but if not learning is an active choice then it doesn't seem fair to be cadging lifts off others.

I'm saying that taking the attitude that all public transport is completely terrifying, and that there are no options for help available except to panic and feel completely helpless, (in a situation where there is in fact always help available - by asking another passenger, finding the guard/driver, calling the police, or pulling the emergency alarm if all else fails) is not a good way to approach life.

Are you getting this from my post about how unsafe it feels to use public transport as a lone female? Because I'm not sure where I implied I didn't know how to cope with it. On all occasions I have been able to either shout loudly to get away from me, or got up and moved. But I have the confidence to do so. I've seen it happen many times where the target is a younger woman in her teens who clearly was stuck not knowing how to deflect or escape, so I blame her for that? No, I don't. Not with years of social conditioning in her to be polite and not cause offence.

Lol at the hunger games reference! I'm in Yorkshire.

I have been on a busy tube train with a man furiously wanking off, and I have experienced a man standing too close and men manspreading uncomfortably next to me on seats. And countless other minor inconveniences and delays, in a lifetime of travelling by public transport. But that is not a reason not to travel or to learn to drive. The solution is not fewer women on public transport. It would be counter productive. In most cases the times I have felt most unsafe when travelling is in cars, due to the way people drive, mechanical failure, poor road conditions. I don't feel that tension when travelling by rail with my children, we visit family several hundred miles away a few times a year, by train. There are always concerns about keeping everyone together and occupied and regular toilet breaks etc. But it is 'easier' for me, I feel more in control of the situation and the children are well versed in train etiquette (if only everyone was).

I agree it is a life skill, being able to drive, but I don't think it is essential. Independence can come from learning to operate a train timetable and navigate a metro system, from holding a buspass and a map.

My original point was that it's undeniable that travelling in your own car is a lot safer in terms of unwanted attention and harassment compared to being on buses and trains. I really dislike that the conversation turned to 'women should toughen up', from that. Jesus.

My original point was that it's undeniable that travelling in your own car is a lot safer in terms of unwanted attention and harassment compared to being on buses and trains.

Not sure where you get all that attention from. I travel 3 times a week to work on a train, i travel regularly in London ie every 2 weeks and never get any attention, i commuted to London every day for 20 odd years and cant ever think of unwanted attention in all that time. I travel home from the West End every couple of weeks on the tube and train from theatre. I very rarely ever feel unsafe. When i drove I felt terrified all the time, which is why i dont drive.

Just stop telling people what they experienced and stop implying they are making it up.

Just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it didnt happen to me or anyone else.

Eh, I'm on the fence here.

Different people find different things challenging- for me a drunk, overfamiliar bloke on the bus was not a problem at 19. I did, however, struggle with making complaints to customer service departments, however justified my position was. Other struggles include poor physical coordination, which played a part in my decision to prioritise paying the council tax over saving for driving lessons.

I very rarely encounter trouble on public transport, and the little I do doesn't really affect me. But it has to be emphasised that bullies (and sexually aggressive people are such) know their targets, and my experiences don't mean it isn't happening. I have seen first hand how men will leave me alone, and pick on other women with very unwelcome 'banter' and that might be what's going on here.

I've been wanked at in the street. I'm not going to stop walking around

I passed my test 2 years ago - lessons were £22 per hour and each lesson 2 hours, once a week.

How many people can afford £200 a month to learn to drive?

it took me 20+ lessons as well, I have terrible co-ordination and it took me ages. However, I did pass first time with only 2 minors :) (very proud, sorry if comes across as smug)

Lucky you, bruffin. And in case you're wondering whether I was somehow asking for it, it happens when I'm dressed in a baggy hoodie and jeans with no makeup on looking like death just as often as it does when I'm dressed nicely with my hair and makeup done. I'm really glad you've never experienced it.

I'll hold back on doing the research for you (or anyone who doubts that I'm speaking the truth and is surprised that their experience of never having had it happen isn't universal), but a simple google search for "statistics for.women being harassed on public transport" should prove fairly enlightening.

And walking down the street is usually just as bad in my experience. I still do it without a second thought as I won't let harassment stop me from living my life, but I definitely choose to drive when possible, for myriad reasons, but not being as easy a target for harassment is a definite plus.