To wonder why people 'don't drive'

[ZX81user]

..medical conditions aside.It is such a useful life skill.
I think it is part of a parent's responsibility to get their teen througj their test.

I've never been wanked at or harassed or flashed on public transport in 20 years. Then again I've been on MN threads where women are incredulous that anyone in their mid 30s can have never experienced harassment or sexual assault. I consider myself very lucky as that's clearly not the experience of others. However I don't recognise the tube as being unsafe. Worst experience is probably a city banker manspreading a bit while reading his copy of the FT. Just asked him to please be careful with his broadsheet and he apologised and put the paper away.

I don't drive (as much) since I had two very stressful collisions in two weeks. I got a bus pass and I love it! Buses are so much better than when I were a lass. I do live on the edge of a city though.

I have also taken the train more and enjoy it far more than driving. I still need to use the car sometimes, but I have massively reduced without much bother.

My mum gave up driving when she got her older person's bus pass. Driving stressed her out too much. Too much traffic. She loves the bus.

I can't believe the post above suggesting that women need to be wanked at and flashed at because its character building. And is all part of growing up. What a load of bollox

I hope you're not trying to imply that I wrote that, because anyone who can read can see that I didn't.

I suggested that if you were "totally freaked out" by a man on a train talking nonsense to you at 19, or by a pissed person offering you a beer, then you would benefit from some work on how you handle everyday life.

My mum is over 70 and travels alone by public transport in and out of central London, several times a week, often late at night. As she has done all her life - I including when she was young and very beautiful.

It's a bit worrying if you can't cope with a situation that a 70 year old grandmother manages without any stress.

GorgonLondon

Really? Being harassed is something we should just learn to cope with? I'm one of the drivers who couldn't have the life or job I do without driving but am all for public transport and if I lived in central London I probably wouldn't have a car. Arguing pubic transport is good for toughing us up to harassment is the ridiculous benefit I have ever heard.

I honestly don't know how non-drivers fit everything in

I am getting more of my book read since getting my bus pass (and more exercise).

CM - I don't really care that much. You sound awfully defensive and the tone of your posts seem to suggest you have a chip on your shoulder.

No I don't sound defensive. I'm on the offensive, actually. The precise opposite. Meanwhile, you've got a massive log on your shoulder about non-drivers per se.

As for the flying, I knew it wouldn't be long before someone bought that up, or something else of that ilk- and that, incidentally, is you being defensive. Trying to deflect attention away from yourself. Because even if I took a round the world flight to work in my own private jet, dined entirely on endangered species and my hobby was drilling in the Amazon for a laugh, the way you and the people talking about cheeky non-drivers are framing this issue would still be wrong.

The appropriate response, from a driver, to someone who could choose to drive but who doesn't, and thus plays their part in reducing congestion and pollution, is one of gratitude. Not whining about something that is infinitely, infinitely less important. It isn't us who are the ones being entitled here. We as a society do not require more people driving cars.

I would ALWAYS encourage to drive and fund it.Unless she really really didn't want too

'As for the flying I knew it wouldn't be long before someone brought that up'

Well that's because it's a reasonable point to make. I certainly haven't at any point said that cars/ aeroplanes don't damage the environment. I notice you yourself have never said that you don't use cars either. I wonder why that is.

'My mum is over 70 and travels alone by public transport in and out of central London, several times a week, often late at night. As she has done all her life - I including when she was young and very beautiful.'

My experience of the underground is that people usually keep to themselves. But really it's irrelevant. You are saying that women should just deal with strangers hassling them on a train. I imagine you don't have daughters. If you are a 19 year old, Small built autistic woman then clearly it's not a nice situation to be followed around by a 6ft tall man who appears deranged and looks about 30. And who won't leave you alone. I've never forgotten the stress and intensity of that situation.

No it isn't. It's a shit point. It has zero impact on the issue of whether it's wrong to frame non-drivers rather than unnecessary driving as the problem here, which it is. Also, you stating you haven't said cars don't damage the environment isn't a refutation to this point. Nobody said you had said that. The problem is the way in which you (and lots of others including the OP, tbf) are posting about non-drivers causing you problems without acknowledging that your behaviour is the more problematic. That we already have more driving than is necessary and that we need to reduce that, not increase the number of people who drive.

Also, look a bit closer and you'll see me mention car use. The answer to your burning wonder lies in this thread.

I imagine you don't have daughters.

Well, you imagine wrong. I have a daughter who is currently too young to travel alone by public transport, but has travelled with me on buses, tubes and trains her entire life. Including when she was a tiny newborn and I was a new mum.

I firmly hope and believe that I am bringing her up to know what to do in situations like the one you describe. There are situations where there is genuinely no help available. Being on a train is not one of them.

You are saying that women should just deal with strangers hassling them on a train.

I'm saying that taking the attitude that all public transport is completely terrifying, and that there are no options for help available except to panic and feel completely helpless, (in a situation where there is in fact always help available - by asking another passenger, finding the guard/driver, calling the police, or pulling the emergency alarm if all else fails) is not a good way to approach life.

So, do you think that we should all not drive and walk everywhere? I wonder how that would work out.

My behaviour is more 'problematic' er, ok. My disabled daughter lives in a residential school in rural Wales. If I didn't drive I wouldn't see her. There is no train to the town she lives in. She needs to see her family. And her dad also relies on me to see her. He doesn't drive.

As with your previous inane question, I'm going to require more on the thought process that led you to ask it before I deign to answer. Cos I enjoy a giggle.

Note my previous responses about some people clearly needing to drive. Indeed, those people particularly benefit from those of us who choose not to. About a third of the adult population don't have a licence, and of those who do, some don't use it. There would be a lot more traffic jams if we did!

It's a straightforward question. There is no thought process behind it.

Whether you like it or not modern life and the ability to get to work and do things relies, to some extent on driving. And if you don't drive then at some point you will need to rely on someone else who does. That's just a fact.

My daughter is 14. She can't wait to learn to drive because she feels it will give her independence.

That there's no thought process behind your reasoning is rather the point here...

Anyway yes it's a fact that most people will need to rely on someone who can drive at some point, be that themselves or another. It's equally a fact that people driving and having cars is less environmentally friendly than people using public transport whenever possible, and taxis for journeys where it's not. Because people who do have cars use them when they would otherwise take public transport, and also when they wouldn't otherwise use a taxi (ie different car). And that you are effectively reliant on those of us who don't drive for both your air quality and your ability to travel without more congestion than already exists, both of which are issues already and neither of which are going to be assisted by more drivers.

This is all true whether you like it or not, I'm afraid. You can't get round this, any more than I can get round the effects of reduced air quality.

The only times I have been flashed at has been walking down the city centre, only way to avoid that would have been be never to get out of the car, but insist on driving straight into the shops.

Having said all this, I do enjoy a good cheeky fucker parking thread. There's one now about people parking over multiple bays and it's marvellous.

'It's equally a fact that people driving and having cars is less environmentally friendly than people using public transport whenever possible, and taxis for journeys where it's not. '

Yes, I agree. But I think we live in a world where very few people dont drive.

The problem is that people who don't drive often create issues for their friends and family who do.

Outofsync cheeky feckers do, the rest of us make our own arrangements.

Yes I guess I rely on a driver to take me around, taxi, bus, train etc well that's what they are paid to do.

I love driving and am very happy that I can drive. I think I would struggle without it. No matter where I have lived, I have needed to drive. I have lived in suburbs of towns where my job was an hour and a quarter by bus and 15 minutes drive, and my kids school was an hour on the bus, but 10 minutes drive. So much of our lives would have been wasted hanging around at bus stops and wasting 2 to 2 and a half hours a day on the bus, when it was a 25-30 minute round trip in the car.

It is just so much more convenient by car, and you can stop when you want, have a break when you want, and it does cost less than a load of train tickets if the whole family is going somewhere. It's also great in an emergency, and great if you suddenly need to go somewhere. I also think it's pretty essential to be able to drive when you have kids. But that is just my opinion.

I now live 3 miles from a town, with no buses, and my job is 10 miles away. My job requires driving, and to be honest I would not have been promoted to the position I am in in my career if I couldn't drive. Because of the travelling involved, (sometimes to rural and remote places,) it was an essential part of the job description.

If people don't want to drive, and they don't need to, then good for them, that is their prerogative, but I would struggle, I must admit.

The drivers who are angry (on here) are probably like this because they have had numerous incidents where they have been used by non-drivers, never offered petrol money, and generally taken advantage of by non-drivers. Not all non-drivers take advantage of drivers of course, but some do, and many drivers have experienced this, and it does grind you down and grate on you when they do this. They expect lifts to and from work, they expect you to ferry their kids about, they expect you to pick them up and take them back when you go out anywhere, and don't seem to ever offer anything towards costs...

And the anger from the non-drivers is probably because they are sick of being 'got at' for not being a driver/not learning to drive, and they are (understandably) rather defensive.

So I do see (and understand) both sides, but I, personally, would not have wanted a life where I couldn't drive. Just being able to throw the kids into the car with a picnic, and the buckets and spades, and footballs, and extra sets of clothes and shoes (in case we get wet,) and just tootle off and be at the beach within an hour is amazing, and frankly, not do-able by train or bus. Not from where we live.........