AIBU to think Ben Shackleton is selfish for attempting to climb Everest when he has a young family to think of

[NicEv]

Just read an article in the Daily Mail written by Ben Shackleton’s wife bleating on about how brave he is to risk his life attempting to climb Everest. AIBU to think it’s not brave to do this when the biggest risk is leaving two young children without a dad. He should have done this before he had kids - or not had kids at all if he can’t stop doing these stupid pointless challenges for months on end and risking his life in the process! How

So by some people's accounts there are a whole load of occupations that should be off limits once you have kids - astronaut, adventurer, armed forces, stunt artist, motorbike courier, diver, boxer ....

I think what annoys me about people Ben Fogle is that they do these things to test their endurance and so they can describe themselves as heroes. They go and talk to kids and hold themselves up as role models. I can't help thinking about people like my DP who is disabled and faces pain and challenges every day of his life. He does everything he can to avoid injury whereas Ben Fogle puts himself in harms way for god knows what reasons. I know who my 'hero' is.

Astronaut and armed forces are different as has been pointed out already.

There’s a difference between doing an inherently dangerous job which benefits others and a dangerous hobby which only really benefits your own sense of achievement.

Ben Fogle puts himself in harms way for god knows what reasons
he does it for kicks, fear and physical exertion etc can make you feel elated & euphoric
plus all the ego gratification
I can see that to some extent this is inspirational but in my view the real hero's are people like emergency room staff, ambulance staff, firefighters etc.
People who face danger and threat to rescue and save others not just to boost their own self esteem

You said it better than me ohfortuna

I think you said it really well too , LARLARLAND

Ben Fogle is not a hero. He chooses to do the things he does. Heroism implies an element of no, or limited, choice; facing life-limiting illness; rescuing someone from a fire; delivering a baby in less than ideal circumstances. What Ben Fogle does is comparatively recreational.

I wonder if Mrs Fogle is reading this?

I can totally understand the obsession with Everest, I have read loads of books about the subject and am following a lot of the expeditions on-line/social media up there now (this is the season). Utterly fascinating and I do admire the people who attempt to climb it for what I call proper reasons, love of the mountains, love of a challenge rather than a tick box exercise at a certain stage in your life. From what I have read a lot has changed since 1996 when Rob Hall and the others tragically died up there thank god.

Btw no-one ever 'conquers' Everest, if you are very lucky the mountain may let you up there and if even luckier let you back down again.

Who said Ben Fogle was a hero? Im sure he wouldn't describe himself in that way. Initially he was just a television presenter who specialised in adventure type shows. Lately he has been taking part in various challenges to raise money and awareness for charities. I don't think he'd continue doing this if it wasn't profitable and he probably has to 'up' the challenge level each time in order to get the publicity.

They also risks the guides life as well I heard it’s become like a strange dinsey land

OK - I'm going to twist this thread a bit. George Mallory: did he reach the summit - yes/no?

I say Yes.

I grew up with a dad who was a mountain guide, specialising in very high level ice climbing. People at school and so on were always going on about how "selfish" he was risking killing himself and leaving me an orphan (even though my mother was a nice safe speech therapist) which we always found ridiculous because as people have said, there are risks in everything. People work as coal miners and in foundries and with high risk prisoners and as firefighters and all sorts of dangerous things, and nobody calls them selfish. Climbers (mostly, some are idiots) are very careful and make sure they train and take precautions and follow strict safety procedures and don't take stupid risks. My dad climbed for over 50 years and worked as a guide for over 25 years, and never had a serious accident because he was careful and knew what he was doing. If he'd had to give up climbing just in case something happened to him then a) he'd have been bloody miserable, b) he would have wasted all those opportunities and fantastic moments he had. He could have been knocked over by a bus on the way in to a boring office job and I'd still have been without a dad.

Maybe I know some adventurous people but I hadn’t thought Everest was amazingly impressive - to the comparisons here of Cooke and Columbus anyway. It’s hardly discovering new lands. K2 is significantly more impressive, lol.

That said, I totally agree that it’s dangerous, damaging to the environment and considering how many people have been before them- almost pointless. Why is he even doing it?

Not a hero but i love that he's pursuing his passion. Better then turning into a potato in front of tv watching life go by. Hopefully his kids will follow his example.

I don't think he'd continue doing this if it wasn't profitable and he probably has to 'up' the challenge level each time in order to get the publicity.

This. Alison Hargreaves was discussed up thread: she was under a lot of pressure from sponsors to climb ever harder routes in order to maintain a public interest and therefore pay packet. Different scenario obviously because she was actually an extremely talented climber but there are parallels.

www.nytimes.com/2018/03/14/obituaries/overlooked-alison-hargreaves.html

This is the link to a NY Times article about how in adventure sports women’s achievements are overlooked. Growing up Alison Hargreaves was a huge inspiration to me and although I could never achieve what she did (simply don’t have the skills) her passion and determination to do things her way in a very male dominated field was quietly inspirational . I was so sad when she died and I thought of her children and she got loads of ‘bad press’ but she was a climber and adventurer and mother all rolled in to one. Her children are both climbers..I think they were inspired by her..

“Neffsaid”.. that is true, she was a sponsored climber earning money. Dean Potter the climber/slack line and BASE jumper was also a sponsored athlete..in fact he lost a lot of his sponsors when he free climbed a First Nation monument in Utah..that created a lot of bad publicity. Dean Potter died a couple of years ago when his wingsuit malfunctioned during a jump and he hit the ground in Yosemite. His girlfriend was pregnant with their child I believe..

if your goals include things that will likely result in your death or injury
Dangerous - yes. Likely result in your death or injury? - No, that' a gross exaggeration of the risk.
Since 2000, there have been 118 deaths out of 7056 successful summits and many more unsuccessful attempts.
He will be well supported and monitored throughout.

By going off for two months to do this risky “adventure”, Ben Fogle is leaving his wife to deal with his kids’ needs and sending them a clear message about his priorities. And he is risking leaving them without a daddy if god forbid he doesn’t make it.
Like a soldier or oil rig worker - they are all just trying to make a living doing what they know and possibly love.

@Winedrinkerme Nah you owe it to your kids to do what you can to be there for them and not die on them. You owe them that.

So is it wrong for parents to be in the armed forces, the police and other dangerous occupations that are vital for the country?

There will always be some adventurer types. Some of those will want to or already be parents too.

I vividly remember Alison Hargreaves, being in awe of her deeds and seeing an interview with her before her death on K2

Recently read the book about the Yorkshire Rows, the four mothers who successfully rowed the Atlantic. It says they did it partly to inspire their DC and show them that parents could do more than work and be parents. The dangers of the trip weren’t properly discussed in the book IMO: just a brief mention of “older women” acquaintances being negative about the plans, and one of the four having a few dark hours and feeling selfish for taking the risk. And the high financial costs and practical impact on the families. I personally think what they did was amazing, but ultimately selfish.

Think the same about very extreme sports.

But as they say in the book, if asked the question “why?” Climb, row, explore, run, dive, the adventures say “because it’s there”.

Many jobs are probably statistically more dangerous than adventuring work for money.

People in often low paid service jobs may have a higher risk of being the victim of violence in their workplace.

People die and are injured on the roads - cycling, in cars, walking.

There are health risks of working long hours in a stressful job, being overweight and not exercising.

Or smoking, drinking.

Well i personally think YANBU about Fogle.
But I guess its up to them isnt it?
Id go ballistic if my husband said he was off to do something like that. Id say why on earth have kids with me and marry me if youre just going to chuck yourself up a mountain and die?!
But I didnt marry someone I knew loved mountain climbing and maybe if you do choose to marry someone who loves a dangerous activity then you have to factor that in.
As long as all his cards were on the table from the beginning I guess thats fair enough.
Id go ballistic if my husband rocked up one day and said he was joining the army. But many women do marry guys and have families with guys who put their lives at risk every day.

I do find it funny how expensive adventure sports can be... and how dangerous. In my mind its a bit like people who have enough money to never actually face the dangers and struggles of people with hardly anything actually then go and pay money to have their lives put at risk so they can feel a bit more alive.

Don't worry, Kenton won't let him die. Sir Ranulph Twisleton-Wykeham-Fiennes, the worlds greatest living explorer, I believe was dragged up Everest by Kenton Cool. Btw, I do wish people wouldn't keep bringing up Alison Hargreaves. Alison was a completely different kettle of fish to these armatures.