AIBU to think Ben Shackleton is selfish for attempting to climb Everest when he has a young family to think of

[NicEv]

Just read an article in the Daily Mail written by Ben Shackleton’s wife bleating on about how brave he is to risk his life attempting to climb Everest. AIBU to think it’s not brave to do this when the biggest risk is leaving two young children without a dad. He should have done this before he had kids - or not had kids at all if he can’t stop doing these stupid pointless challenges for months on end and risking his life in the process! How

So when you have kids does that mean you have to stop doing anything slightly dangerous?
Whilst climbing Everest is more dangerous than walking in the park, it's not that bad!
Would you criticise Ranulph Fiennes as well?

An interesting question. Depends on whether you think the first duty of a parent is to try to be there for their child at least until they’ve grown up. I also think there is a difference between risking your life earning your living by doing an inherently dangerous job that benefits others, and risking your life pursuing a dangerous hobby for your own personal satisfaction.

I don't see a problem with him going up a mountain. Parents are still allowed to have hobbies, some of which may be risky.

However, Everest is a right mess now from too many climbers and their rubbish and bodies so I do think he should go climbing somewhere else.

I think that you owe to your kids to see them safely into adulthood. Their wellbeing should become your first priority and if that means putting your own ambitions on the back burner, so be it! No one can have everything and if you aren't willing to put your children's welfare first, then you have no business becomming a parent. People who do dangerous shit for no good reason are damaging their dc.
It's not comparable to being a soldier or astronaut, because if those people die, their dc will know it happened because their parent was trying to do something for the greater good, not just trying to satisfy a selfish personal ambition.
It isn't a straightforward choice of climb Everest or sit home eating chips, but you do have to temper your ambitions in order to be a good parent.
A friends husband was also quite badly injured paragliding. He still does it, but imagine his wife did it too and they both got hurt or worse. It's arsehole behaviour to have kids, do what the fuck you like and expect your spouse to take care of everything so you can carry on behaving like a single person with no responsibilities.

When most people become parents it does change them, I think. You become more aware of your mortality and your responsibilities towards your children who rely on you so I do find this difficult to understand.

. If we were all rich enough to choose to Indulge every whim, with nannies bringing up our kids while we were off on adventures, would everyone CHOOSE to do that? I dont think so. I think most would choose to be there for their kids.

I often wonder whether these kids of people who do extreme personal challenges question inwardly whether they are not exciting enough for that parent. I mean, if your parent is off half the year indulging their hobby (and specifically NOT as a way of making a living or trying to advance mankind’s knowledge), there has to come a point where you ask yourself why they chose to have you.

I can't remember who said it first, but Everest is no longer where you go for an adventure, it's where you go to queue.

The people who die on Everest are often (not always) the least equipped and prepared. It seems unlikely that Fogle will be either.

K2 is the one where 1 in 4 climbers die, even serious pros.

I'm sure Rob Halls pregnant wife was comforted by knowing he was living his dream as he called her dying from Everest

I never tell DH what to do but I have put my foot down about Everest. It’s one of those places that even the best climbers die. He’s done a few other extreme trips and climbs so it’s right up his street but with the kids now I just couldn’t agree with him doing it.

manifestingpowerhouse. That’s a low blow. Rob Hals was a tour operator / guide whose job it was to take entitled adventure tourists like Ben Fogle up Everest. And this is where it gets dangerous. If people say “I paid £30k so I demand to reach the summit’ and the weather is turning bad, what do you do? Risk your life or risk losing your job? This is where EverestLand gets murky.

Captain Cook was a lovely bloke by all accounts. First man to circumnavigate the world without losing a single member of his crew to scurvy.

Vanilla - that's the point. It's not just your life you're risking but the lives of people around you. For what? An experience? A sense of achievement?

Marriage and children are not going to change who he is and I'm sure his wife knew this when she married him

That's fine, but if this notion is extended to the majority of women then the same luxury of choice rarely applies.

Women so often do have to change who they are, their personal aspirations are placed on the back burner, or they shoe-horn a few meagre moments of personal time into their DC-focused week. Even just the basics such as being able to do regular sporting activities and hobbies. So often there are threads on here about women becoming "golf/cycling/running widows". The term golf/cycling/running "widowers" is a lot more rare. The onus ends up being placed on them to remind their DH/DP of their obligations, and end up feeling guilty.

Men do so often remain who they are, that's the issue.

What Daisy said

Of course noone would say parents have to abandon all their dreams when they have children. But having children is a choice and they do have needs when they are little - fundamentally they need their parents to be around and to put them first.

By going off for two months to do this risky “adventure”, Ben Fogle is leaving his wife to deal with his kids’ needs and sending them a clear message about his priorities. And he is risking leaving them without a daddy if god forbid he doesn’t make it.

And I do think that is wrong. He had the choice not to have kids - so he could keep risking his own life and putting his own wants and desires first.

He has chosen to have children - that carries responsibilities and I think it must be very hard on his kids to be left behind while he goes off on adventures without them.

Ps sorry about the cheap posh kids name shot - I went for a cheap laugh, but didn’t mean it. I am more a traditional names girl , but no problem with others going for more exotic and unusual names!

The ethics of parents putting themselves in high risk situations has been discussed a lot by the mountaineering press. Alison Hargreaves was a mountaineer who was killed in K2 in 1995, when here children were still very young. She had the full support of her husband. Does it make it even worse that she was a woman? Or, as Alison’s husband said, she everyone be allowed to live their lives? This is discussed more in her biography Regions of the Heart.

Reading the article, it's so "Daily Mail". All done to generate traffic on social media no doubt

It's totally ill-advised to "prepare their DC for the possibility their DF could die on Mount Everest". Yeah great, let's give the kids a worst-case scenario that may never happen just so they're prepared for the worst. No, how about you act like a responsible grown up and if DF is insisting on swanning off on his ego trip up Everest, talk about the best that will happen so those poor DC don't have unnecessary nightmares and anxiety that they don't need to have at their age.

The whole thing is bonkers, and yes NikEv she is bleating on about it, but actually shes enabling him and enjoys the publicity herself too!

Also a spouse can make a choice to enable support their dp in being selfish, but kids are utterly dependent on their parents whims!

Then there's the guy who's run 16,000 miles while his partner was pregnant and she had a baby. I'm not impressed about that. What about her?
I can't stand showoff ways of raising money, often it's more about the person's need for validation rather than the charity itself. If you feel so strongly about a charity, you donate the cost of the challenge to charity!

Thanks Bikeskirun, very interesting article. This is an interesting read too - for me, it’s irrelevant whether you are male or female . If you have children you have to put them first and not risk your life unnecessarily

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/summit-fever-killed-hargreaves-1597490.html%3famp

YANBU. I totally agree.

Presumably, he has specialist life assurance that provides for his wife and kids if he snuffs it on the mountain? If he doesn't, then he's unreasonable.

Yeah but it's not just money is it it's knowing that your mum or dad wasn't interested in staying at home with you they wanted to be off having adventures having fun and you're just a boring kid

I'm not sure if Ben Fogle has an actual occupation - other than appearing on TV documentaries.

So I suspect they have to drum up as much media interest as possible, and as knowing that someone is climbing up Everest is about as exciting as knowing they've taken a dump that morning ,then this unnecessary alarming of the DCs to get a DM sad face article, is perhaps the only way to get a new angle on the matter.

DH was thinking about climbing Everest - thankfully the £40k cost and the potential life endangerment put him off. Think it was more the life endangerment aspect, but I certainly would have been reluctant to spend a large chunk of our retirement fund on such a self indulgent trip. Instead he's planning to do Kilimanjaro for his 50th which can be done for £3-4k. Still an extravagance but more affordable and safer.

Since when did TV presenter not count as an occupation?

I’d feel far too mortal to do it. I remember doing all kinds of stuff pre-kids, I felt invincible. Bad stuff would NEVER happen to me! I’d think.

Ever since I had kids things changed, I just don’t want to take risks over things that are necessary or at least my safety is pretty darn assured.

I think he’s an idiot doing it with young kids, but maybe he has beasty life insurance so figures if he dies then the kids are sorted anyways. Men seem to think about things in regards to financial worry rather than emotional worry it seems. I’d be worried my kids wouldn’t have me to talk to or help them through life, whereas OH would be worried about the financial side of things