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To think unversal credit is a disaster *trigger warning*

902 replies

jnfrrss · 05/05/2018 08:31

This just popped up in my feed. Talking about someone that had an abortion as they wouldn't be able to afford the child without credits. It's not just an isolated issue, a charity says they've had a huge increase in women contacting about abortions as now they won't be able to afford to have any more children. I'm not sure what the answer is but this is very worrying

www.mirror.co.uk/money/it-wasnt-planned-very-wanted-12480380

OP posts:
SilverDoe · 05/05/2018 11:59

bunce what an ignorant and reductive statement.

People on low income, or even fair income, after the costs of rent, bills and childcare, often do not have enough to save the money to move even through renting. I live in the South East and the rent situation here is dire. I cannot afford to move far away, my job (not just job, career) is here, my family who I really on for childcare support is here. It costs about £2k at least to get together rent, deposit and fees. The market is also incredibly competitive so god forbid if you ever get into debt and have an adverse credit score, as you will be in for a long insufferable wait in temporary accommodation if you want to chance getting a council property.

Individuals moving to cheaper areas of the country is also not a proper or long term solution - what happens when no one can afford to live in the SE anymore and everyone moves up North? The dynamic will be different, not better. The government need to be providing stable and actually attainable housing. People should not be wasting their whole lives worrying about how they are every going to have a secure home for their family without risk of being uprooted every 1 - 2 years. It is soul destroying I promise you.

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 05/05/2018 11:59

You can earn £16k a year anywhere in the country where rent is comparatively cheap.

@bunce - I live in the North East. This week I found out that a job vacancy in a coffee shop had over 600 applicants! You can’t just make sweeping statements like that, places like London are miles apart from ex coal mining towns like those up here and in Wales. And no as @Smeddum has said moving isn’t as easy/the answer for everyone - we all can’t move to London!

Smeddum · 05/05/2018 11:59

Or take some overtime save to get some funds to move - where there is a will theres a way

If you’re in absolute poverty you really think it’s that simple?

And you get taxed, heavily, on a second job. DP was working 3 jobs at one point and it became almost pointless because of tax.

We are in a decent financial position now, because, despite his years of hard work, nothing changed. It was sheer luck that got him the job he has now (MNetter looking for staff funnily enough) and a legacy from my late Mum is what got us out of the mire. Laziness doesn’t come into it.

Smeddum · 05/05/2018 12:01

There have also been elderly Jamaicans deported in order to appease the frothing masses, until said masses decided it wasn't what they wanted after all

Absolutely, it wasn’t until people who cared quite rightly became angry about the appalling and inhumane treatment of the Windrush generation that any kind of action was even considered.

And people wonder why we need protests about welfare reforms?

JustAnotherPoster00 · 05/05/2018 12:01

However, living of the state is proven to be inherited through generations.

Disproved and discredited hoccum spouted by right wing idiots who know no better and cant see further than the DM/Express/Torygraph/S*n headline theyre reading

Walkingdeadfangirl · 05/05/2018 12:02

Its quite sensible not to have children you can't afford. Whats stupid is having children when you can't afford them.

Dragongirl10 · 05/05/2018 12:03

I find it incredible there are so many unwanted pregnancies, there is free contraception ( in my younger days l used to double up to be sure, ie pill and condom)

And with the (very few) genuine failures MAP.....

In fact then there are very few unwanted pregnancies, that is how most people plan their families, l am happy to support those who have genuine need, but not those more irresponsible than l can afford to be.

ohreallyohreallyoh · 05/05/2018 12:03

16 k a year is right about minimum wage at 40 hours per week. How about get a second job in a pub in the evenings for a couple of months ? Or take some overtime save to get some funds to move - where there is a will theres a way. I do overtime when i need more money - yes id rather not but if i need something to happen I have to make it happen

Ermmm.... childcare? Not having a job with the option of overtime? Doing a job like I do such as teaching where you are working when not in work? Not understanding how to make it happen? Not having the tools to make it happen?

VladmirsPoutine · 05/05/2018 12:04

UC is an extraordinarily cruel and callous system for many reasons but precluding women from having further children is not one of them.

For a start I think there's about a 5-week waiting policy and another term they invented called 'waiting days' which essentially means a period in which you won't be paid even though you've applied. It really is a cruel and callous system.

Smeddum · 05/05/2018 12:05

Ermmm.... childcare? Not having a job with the option of overtime? Doing a job like I do such as teaching where you are working when not in work? Not understanding how to make it happen? Not having the tools to make it happen?

Spot on.

ohreallyohreallyoh · 05/05/2018 12:05

And with the (very few) genuine failures MAP

The MAP has a 10% failure rate. I personally think that’s pretty high. It failed for me.

Cornettoninja · 05/05/2018 12:05

Yes I believe childbearing is a right. At what point is it okay to intervene in someone else's fertility? Just (for example) because you may have been solvent when you had four children doesn't mean you always will be and the reverse is true.

Then there's the fact that in reality we don't have enough children being born to support the older generation. It's the reverse pyramid isn't it? It's much cheaper to encourage the current population to have children than it will be to import them at a later date when funds and energy have to go into integration and education to properly function.

In an ideal world no one would need state support if they were employed but that's not the way our economy is set up. No matter how you spin it, it's just not. There is far too much reliance on cheap, intermittent labour that can't fund what it actually costs to live here. As well as encouraging a population to hoard property as if it was a salary earning contributor to their house hold.

Personally I think housing is the root cause/possible solution to enabling people to be self sufficient. The government are more than happy to fiddle around in that free market so long as it's lining pockets so I fully believe they're capabale of levelling the playing field.

Social housing was never meant to be a safety net it was meant to provide employed people with a roof over their heads in return for payment. Managed properly it's self funding and creates opportunity and economic benefits that imho far outweigh what we have now pandering to the private housing economy.

SilverDoe · 05/05/2018 12:07

There are always people out there who believe poor people are only poor because of their own faults and flaws. I promise you that it is not as simple as that, and even in cases where it is, what kind of life is that? can you really say it is a choice? Or is it the corner you are backed into when you fell powerless and completely without prospects?

We do need mass protests to the welfare reforms because the government clearly share those ideas of blame being on the poor, and it's heart breaking. I don't come from a poor family yet considering long term prospects is really scary, especially when it comes to housing, and I can imagine if you are truly struggling and have no support life must be very bleak. Very upsetting times :(

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 05/05/2018 12:08

I think there's something really wrong for people to reproduce when the benefits system can't take care of the people already here. I've just been reading a thread about a woman who needs to live in her car for a while, posting for advice on doing that safely. How on earth is that Just and reasonable? Angry

Smeddum · 05/05/2018 12:11

I've just been reading a thread about a woman who needs to live in her car for a while, posting for advice on doing that safely. How on earth is that Just and reasonable?

It is neither just, nor reasonable. It is horrifying and grossly unfair. It is also not the fault of benefit claimants and absolutely the fault of an overtightened “reformed” system. So equating that situation as being a result of someone claiming benefits for more than 2 children doesn’t really make sense.

SilverDoe · 05/05/2018 12:15

Lying that is classic misplaced anger though. We are actually having less babies. In 2017 we hit a 10 year low on child birth rates in the UK. The government should be dealing and finding ways to cope with the population at just that, a population level. Their failures to reduce poverty for both the young and older people in this country is nothing to do with a lack of ability to do so; it's purely ideological. And it's disgraceful.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 05/05/2018 12:17

That's not what I meant, Smeddum, I think that if we have a benefits system that is available to all (as it should be) then the priority must be to provide for people already here, having requirements for life.

If those 2 or 5 or however many children already exist then they're included in that. I have no particular views on how many children people should have; just that the system (however limited it is) should provide for people here, now, with immediate needs, whatever they are.

Smeddum · 05/05/2018 12:20

That's not what I meant, Smeddum, I think that if we have a benefits system that is available to all (as it should be) then the priority must be to provide for people already here, having requirements for life

I agree with that, I really do. I’ve now read the thread about the woman seeking advice about sleeping in her car and from what I saw she hasn’t claimed any benefits or asked to? She is exactly the kind of person who should be able to!

The point is that I feel your anger is misplaced, because the propaganda from the government directing anger towards people on benefits rather than their own disastrous policies and austerity is working.

Andromeida59 · 05/05/2018 12:20

I think that UC is a farce and that so many people have been treated dreadfully by it. However, I honestly have little sympathy for the woman in this article. She wasn't made to have an abortion, it was her choice. Her and her partner decided to try for another baby believing that they could receive more in benefits. My partner and I are hoping to have children soon and we know that at the most we could afford two children. I don't see why others on benefits can't make the same calculations.

Smeddum · 05/05/2018 12:21

If those 2 or 5 or however many children already exist then they're included in that

But they’re not, because of the cap, because of rising living costs not being matched by rises in benefits. That’s my point.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 05/05/2018 12:21

I think there's something really wrong for people to reproduce when the benefits system can't take care of the people already here

You fell for the propaganda then? Theres no money left, none.......no dont look over there at the people not paying their taxes.....look here, there is no more money for the poor

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 05/05/2018 12:22

SilverDoe, it was meant to be a 'sad' face rather than an angry one. I don't disagree with you about birth rates but I see it simply on the basis that people HERE and NOW have to be supported if support is what they need.

However defective the system may be, it's the one we have to work with, there's no alternative, is there?

I'm honestly not bashing anybody on benefits; quite the contrary. It's just so saddening and frustrating.

ArnoldBee · 05/05/2018 12:22

Uc and pay 2 children are two completely different issues. You need to separate them out rather than badge them under the uc is a disaster umbrella. It is not uc itself but the pay 2 children legislation that is restricting the payments.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 05/05/2018 12:23

Smeddum, I realise my mistake there. Just because I think that everybody already here should be supported, doesn't mean that government policy and application holds that view and you're quite correct. Apologies.

Juiceylucy09 · 05/05/2018 12:26

I do not agree with UC. I do agree with the cut off at 2 children, There are some people around here with 8 and 9 children, who never worked a day in their life. I hope they bring it in to Ireland too.

Lots of these families claim 145 euro a month per child, get social welfare weekly payments, lots of their children have LD due to upbringing, heating allowance, school uniform allowance. I am not been stuck up it is a joke expecting the state to support your children.

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