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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think unversal credit is a disaster *trigger warning*

902 replies

jnfrrss · 05/05/2018 08:31

This just popped up in my feed. Talking about someone that had an abortion as they wouldn't be able to afford the child without credits. It's not just an isolated issue, a charity says they've had a huge increase in women contacting about abortions as now they won't be able to afford to have any more children. I'm not sure what the answer is but this is very worrying

www.mirror.co.uk/money/it-wasnt-planned-very-wanted-12480380

OP posts:
ohreallyohreallyoh · 05/05/2018 17:39

Gilead please don’t feel you need to justify being on benefits of any kind for even the shortest amount of time. Do, however, shout very loudly about being a human being with the same rights and expectations as anyone else.

Bowlofbabelfish · 05/05/2018 17:39

thats what it boils down to really. What about the kids. The children of the most criminal, feckless parents you can possibly draw a stereotype of still need a fair crack at life, don’t they? Or else aren’t we just perpetuating the cycle?

How much difference would fair wages, secure housing, better funding for early intervention, better funding for CAHMs, Scandinavia style high quality subbed childcare make?

I’ve lived in Sweden - it’s a kind of scared cow there that kids are centred - daycare is virtually free if you’re poor. Kids all go to state daycares, even the royal kids. The idea is that every child is offered the same access to quality early years care (with food included.)

Vilify the parents all you want. But their children deserve a fair start.

Bowlofbabelfish · 05/05/2018 17:40

(I’m not actually vilifying any parents on benefits btw...) there has to be a safety net!

Mightymucks · 05/05/2018 17:49

Again, not something I said. You could perhaps educate yourself with statistics on abuse and consider your use of the words ‘to y minority’.

I’m perfectly aware of the statistics. One in four women experience DA at some point in their life.

The statistics for abuse in the past year are 6 in 100 adults, four of whom will be women. 4% of the population. A minority. Of those abuse which is so extreme they cannot control their reproduction is going to be a minority again. A minority in a minority. So yes, a tiny minority. If we built the state around extreme cases we’d have to start banning cellars and keys because some women somewhere got locked up therefore we should proceed as though we presume that’s the case for everyone (or maybe just those on benefits).

Where did I say that, exactly? I am a proud benefit claimant with a Masters degree. The situation I am in has sod all to do with education.

Yes. And you manage to control your own reproduction right? Just like almost everybody else on benefits right? So why do you think other people are so incapable just by virtue of them being in the same situation as you?

JacquesHammer · 05/05/2018 17:50

@MargaretElizabeth

Or use the NHS and she could have a sterilisation surgery and so could he

You do realise female sterilisation is VERY difficult to get don't you...?

MargaretElizabeth · 05/05/2018 17:54

@JacquesHammer

while i agree its much easier for the husband to have a vasectomy (and not just because its a much less invasive procedure) female sterilisation is available on the NHS. Just have to make the right case to your GP

Gilead · 05/05/2018 17:57

And you manage to control your own reproduction right?
No, it's just we don't hear so much about contraception failures within the married/partnered women who are working groups. There are failures across the board. Many years ago it was discovered that it wasn't the best idea to use iud contraception with women who hadn't had a pregnancy because the failure rate was unacceptably high. There were women who got pregnant because of that failure, some were working, some were not. The fact is that the benefits myth is being built around the minority, there really aren't that many folk who are reproducing because they can. So, if we can build it around one minority, why not another?

HelenaDove · 05/05/2018 18:00

Agustarella Imagine getting a sanction and being admitted to the hospital where you were doing workfare with malnutrition.

I think any hospital using this scheme are risking similar exposure to that that Poundworld got.

Mightymucks · 05/05/2018 18:01

Do, however, shout very loudly about being a human being with the same rights and expectations as anyone else

But people who are not on benefits don’t have the right to have a constantly expanding family subsidised if they can’t afford it. They’re actually in the same boat as almost everybody else bar the very rich. It’s asking for an extra right, not an equal one.

Vilify the parents all you want. But their children deserve a fair start.

Yes, and for two children they get that. The two children they can afford. If they have feckless parents do you really think it is in the interests of those children that their parents are given financial incentives to keep on reproducing?

Yes, good, free early years provision, fair wages, a good standard of social housing. All of these are ways that children to be given a fair chance - brilliant, I agree.

What I don’t agree with is that throwing hundreds of pounds at their parents to encourage them to reproduce even more is.

Smeddum · 05/05/2018 18:01

@MargaretElizabeth not in every area. Certainly not in mine, I’ve been asking for 3 years.

crazycatgal · 05/05/2018 18:01

Neither one of the parents in the article works and they have two existing children. Why should tax payers be paying for them to have another child? Working people often have to make the decision to end a pregnancy due to financial reasons.

HelenaDove · 05/05/2018 18:04

BULLSHIT Margaret. Im low income AND childfree by choice (Yes there are some of us around you know) and i spent FIVE YEARS in the mid to late 90s and AGAIN in the early 2000s making a case to be sterilised and i got refused over and over and over again.

Im 45 this year and marriage is sexless. ( DH is 68 and in poor health ) so there is no point continuing to ask now but you are talking bullshit.

Domino20 · 05/05/2018 18:10

To my mind the most fucking disgusting thing about UC child cap, is that it only applies to women. Men can have multiple kids with multiple partners and the system doesn't sanction them.

Smeddum · 05/05/2018 18:13

@Domino20 aye and the same system is full of holes to allow them not to have to pay maintenance!

JacquesHammer · 05/05/2018 18:20

Just have to make the right case to your GP

I’ve been “making my case” for 5 years.... I can’t even get a sterilisation to open the door for other treatment. So to suggest someone can walk in and say “sterilise me” is misleading.

I highly doubt in ANY PCT that’s the case any more. Or even ever.

MargaretElizabeth · 05/05/2018 18:27

@JacquesHammer

At no point did i say that it is as easy as that. i simply said it was one of many options available.

Smeddum · 05/05/2018 18:33

female sterilisation is available on the NHS. Just have to make the right case to your GP

And many posters have told you it’s not that simple. Because in your original comment you implied that it was.

PastaDrama · 05/05/2018 18:37

When I was Single Parent and I could go back to work I can't confident. I'm a single parent of a disabled child now & I'm the lowest of the low!

mygoditsfullofstars · 05/05/2018 18:40

Nobody is being forced not to have a third child, the government is just capping the amount that the state will give in support. If you want a third child you can have one, you just need to support them yourself rather than rely on other taxpayers. Nothing controversial about that and plenty of people who are not on benefits cannot afford to have three yet have been funding those that rely on subsidies via their taxes. In an overcrowded world it is nuts to give people money to have children they otherwise would not be able to afford (and they still get child benefit, not a lot but basically free money).

BoxsetsAndPopcorn · 05/05/2018 19:02

To my mind the most fucking disgusting thing about UC child cap, is that it only applies to women. Men can have multiple kids with multiple partners and the system doesn't sanction them

The system doesn't sanction either sex for having more than two children, it's not a sanction to stop handing out money every time somebody wants something that they can't afford.

The household the man lives in will be capped to two children per new claim so exactly the same whether man or woman.

If men are fathering multiple children with multiple partners then perhaps those partners should have thought twice about dating him in the first place let alone having a child with them.

Smeddum · 05/05/2018 19:04

If men are fathering multiple children with multiple partners then perhaps those partners should have thought twice about dating him in the first place let alone having a child with them

Why am I not surprised that you’re a misogynist. Why is it always, always the women who actually raise their children that are castigated and belittled? When the men who don’t stick around and don’t meet their responsibilities are absolved because god forbid we expect them to be a parent.

Good grief, you actually believe the shite you write don’t you?

BoxsetsAndPopcorn · 05/05/2018 19:05

Vilify the parents all you want. But their children deserve a fair start

Shame their parents didn't think of that for them isn't it. Throwing money at parents who won't support their children financially isn't the best idea. We shouldn't be encouraging them in any shape or form if we want what's best for children.

Smeddum · 05/05/2018 19:06

@BoxsetsAndPopcorn “throwing money”? It’s barely enough to live on, not the euromillions jackpot.

And why is it now parents in your post when a minute ago it was the fault of only the women?

Gilead · 05/05/2018 19:07

If men are fathering multiple children with multiple partners then perhaps those partners should have thought twice about dating him in the first place let alone having a child with them.
Again, placing the fault with the woman. Angry