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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think unversal credit is a disaster *trigger warning*

902 replies

jnfrrss · 05/05/2018 08:31

This just popped up in my feed. Talking about someone that had an abortion as they wouldn't be able to afford the child without credits. It's not just an isolated issue, a charity says they've had a huge increase in women contacting about abortions as now they won't be able to afford to have any more children. I'm not sure what the answer is but this is very worrying

www.mirror.co.uk/money/it-wasnt-planned-very-wanted-12480380

OP posts:
Gilead · 05/05/2018 16:23

No worries crunchy
Thank you smeddum Flowers

Smeddum · 05/05/2018 16:25

@Gilead no worries, I didn’t think you’d have said something like that! (I recognise your username as one I like Smile)

crunchymint I’ve done it before too (and probably will again) at least you acknowledged it which is more than most do! Smile

Gilead · 05/05/2018 16:29

Please can you point me to the evidence showing the schools that don’t offer sex education and the areas of the country not served by the NHS? I would be very interested to see.
No, but do take a look at the statistics on school attendance within certain areas: Travellers, some gypsy communities, young carers, the disenfranchised, the disaffected. They do not have the opportunities that others do.

Gilead · 05/05/2018 16:30
Blush
Pandoraphile · 05/05/2018 16:40

I really cannot understand why people keep expecting the state to pay for their lifestyle choices. I have two children, I would dearly love another - but I can't afford it. I simply do not have the luxury of spare money to take care of another child. So I won't have one. If you want children then make sure you can support a family.

crunchymint · 05/05/2018 16:44

pandoraphile Unless you are on benefits, then you can afford another child, but are choosing not to have one.

HelenaDove · 05/05/2018 16:51

Ive only read to page 5 so far but lol at dont have sex.

So there will be NO MORE POSTS on these boards saying that a sexless marriage isnt normal then...............yeah and im Kylie.

There was a thread on here this week from a woman who asked her "D" H to stop during sex as she felt pain after surgery but he just carried on. The thread was full of rape apologists shouting about his "right" to sex!

Smeaton unfortunately i think maybe some employers might be waking up to the fact that UC is a complete shitshow. they are starting to realize that UC claimants are going to have to keep taking time OFF work to go to the JC or CAB to keep sorting out the mess. I think it will filter through to employers that they cant have it both ways.

HelenaDove · 05/05/2018 16:55

From a UC blog.

"I spoke to a person who had previously been attending a stand guide work programme scheme. They had previously been volunteering for a local organisation and was enjoying it there and had some real prospects.

They had finished their level one in IT studies and wanted to progress to level two.

They told me that they were told that they now had to undergo a work experience scheme at a local hospital.

They didn’t want to do this but were threatened with a benefit sanction if they didn’t. So here’s what they have to do.

They have to work for a total of 24 hours a week. This is called ‘work experience’ and still do their job search and they won’t be paid.

There’s a 2 week induction period, 4 weeks training and an 8 week placement. Of course there’s the usual promise of a job at the end of this, but there often isn’t and it’s unpaid. After all the work that they will have to do there had better be a job at the end of it. They should be paid for this of course. It’s exploitative to make a person do the above without payment"

Agustarella · 05/05/2018 16:59

I believe the hospital workfare schemes are replacing the jobs of health care assistants - there was a Guardian article a while back. One of the scariest aspects of this is the way that actual paid minimum wage jobs are being replaced with forced labour paid at JSA rates.

crunchymint · 05/05/2018 17:00

Helena Our job centre will be open at weekends and until 8pm in the evenings so people won't have to take time of work.

Agustarella · 05/05/2018 17:04

@crunchymint Signing on at weekends when you work in the week? There really is no rest for the wicked!

ohreallyohreallyoh · 05/05/2018 17:04

Our job centre will be open at weekends and until 8pm in the evenings so people won't have to take time of work

Marvellous! Will there also be a crèche and somewhere to park a sick adult that is being cared for?

ZX81user · 05/05/2018 17:07

I have 3 children 2 of whom were conceived whilst on the pill
Yeah right Hmm

Try holding it between your knees next time- you might find that more effective!

Smeddum · 05/05/2018 17:08

Try holding it between your knees next time- you might find that more effective!

Your response is misogynistic, offensive and disgusting.

greendale17 · 05/05/2018 17:13

Sorry but the tax payer shouldn't pick up the burden of other peoples need to procreate. Responsible people plan their families and what they can afford.

^I agree

Smeddum · 05/05/2018 17:16

Sorry but the tax payer shouldn't pick up the burden of other peoples need to procreate. Responsible people plan their families and what they can afford.

I’m yet to see any outrage for MPs expenses, subsidided food and alcohol within the Houses of Parliament, tax evaders, the monarchy and any other group who are funded by the taxpayer without needing to be.

So again I’ll ask, why is the vitriol always aimed at benefit claimants? Why are they all tarred with the same brush as the feckless examples used as propaganda? And why do you think it’s acceptable to belittle one group of people and not the others in receipt of considerably more taxpayers cash?

Mightymucks · 05/05/2018 17:18

There is a world of difference between access to something and being able to control that access - whether that be opening hours, getting an appointment when you need it, education, personal circumstances including abuse, religious views, and a whole host of stuff that makes us individuals, it is never quite so easy to say ‘it’s there, use it’

Oh don’t be ridiculous. Women across the country in demanding and stressful jobs with unsociable hours still manage to get their contraception organised.

Are you seriously saying somebody who manages to engage with the state enough to get multiple benefit claims in are simply going to become incapable when faced with the NHS.

I find these sort of views really bloody ridiculous and just as bad as things like ‘Benefit Street’, portraying benefits claimants as mindless, brainless baby machines who have no choice but to keep pumping out babies because they’re too dumb to work out how not to. Even when you leave hospital after having a baby contraception is discussed so it’s almost impossible to have multiple children with complete unawareness.

In extreme cases there are other agencies like social services and DV services who offer additional support.

But the idea of infantilising all benefit claimants and saying ‘Well we just have to keep supporting all their kids because they’re too dumb and uneducated to stop having them is just downright offensive.

And the argument that a tiny minority of extreme cases justifies across the board benefits to perfectly rational, capable individuals is just ridiculous.

crunchymint · 05/05/2018 17:19

I am not defending signing on for those working full time, I think it is appalling. Just saying you won't have to take time of work.

What it means though is you will be working full time, looking after kids, etc. Have to travel to your nearest job centre to sign on. And show staff there that you are applying for better paid jobs to get off benefits. Very stressful. No idea what the arrangements will be for carers.

Extravagant · 05/05/2018 17:25

I have two children and have never been on benefits. I can’t easily afford a third (though, luckily, don’t want one). With each child, my earned income has gone down due to cuts in hours and my costs have increased. What’s sauce for the goose....

Smeddum · 05/05/2018 17:27

But the idea of infantilising all benefit claimants and saying ‘Well we just have to keep supporting all their kids because they’re too dumb and uneducated to stop having them is just downright offensive

It’s interesting that you’re happy to sneer at, vilify and belittle benefit claimants but have utterly missed the point of what a few posters have now explained and labelled it “infantilising”. Also, the responsibility for contraception doesn’t just lie with women, so you’ve got a cheek telling anyone they’re making assumptions.

The fact is you do understand, you’re choosing to ignore it because it’s easier for you to sit in judgement than address the fact that the whole system is failing, because it’s harder to tackle the establishment than it is to berate anyone on benefits.

And the argument that a tiny minority of extreme cases justifies across the board benefits to perfectly rational, capable individuals is just ridiculous

What??? That’s not what anyone is saying. What we're saying is that labelling everyone on benefits as like the extreme cases is grossly unfair, and that benefit cuts (including disability benefits which was promised to be protected) based on the masses screaming “it’s not fair” because they’ve believed the tripe in the media is appalling.

You just can’t bear the truth so you’re twisting it to suit your own agenda.

Agustarella · 05/05/2018 17:28

I didn't mean to criticize you @crunchymint! That would really be shooting the messenger! I was shocked because I hadn't heard of the evening and weekend JCP opening.

The trouble with making working people sign on and do workfare/retraining (apart from the sheer offensiveness of it) is that it's a constant stressful treadmill and I believe you only have to be slightly late for one appointment and you get a sanction. Kind of a sword of Damocles situation, as nobody can permanently avoid minor mistakes, which are then punished in draconian fashion. Sorry for the mixed metaphors!

Bowlofbabelfish · 05/05/2018 17:30

Sorry but the tax payer shouldn't pick up the burden of other peoples need to procreate. Responsible people plan their families and what they can afford.

Forget about the parents for a moment. What about the children?

Smeddum · 05/05/2018 17:31

What about the children?

I asked this once here. One of the responses was “collateral damage.”

ohreallyohreallyoh · 05/05/2018 17:35

Even when you leave hospital after having a baby contraception is discussed so it’s almost impossible to have multiple children with complete unawareness

As I said, access is not the same as control.

In extreme cases there are other agencies like social services and DV services who offer additional support

Access to these services exists, but again, control.

But the idea of infantilising all benefit claimants and saying ‘Well we just have to keep supporting all their kids because they’re too dumb and uneducated to stop having them is just downright offensive

Where did I say that, exactly? I am a proud benefit claimant with a Masters degree. The situation I am in has sod all to do with education.

And the argument that a tiny minority of extreme cases justifies across the board benefits to perfectly rational, capable individuals is just ridiculous

Again, not something I said. You could perhaps educate yourself with statistics on abuse and consider your use of the words ‘to y minority’.

Gilead · 05/05/2018 17:36

I really cannot understand why people keep expecting the state to pay for their lifestyle choices
Because I spent a considerable amount of time paying my taxes, didn't ask to become as ill as I have and am therefore entitled (yes, I did use that word) to have some of it back. When I chose to have the children I have (four, the last two being twins), I was working, and continued to work for a considerable period. Don't judge on what you don't comprehend.