To think unversal credit is a disaster *trigger warning*

[jnfrrss]

This just popped up in my feed. Talking about someone that had an abortion as they wouldn't be able to afford the child without credits. It's not just an isolated issue, a charity says they've had a huge increase in women contacting about abortions as now they won't be able to afford to have any more children. I'm not sure what the answer is but this is very worrying

www.mirror.co.uk/money/it-wasnt-planned-very-wanted-12480380

"It is funny isn't it how contraception seems to work a lot better for those who have to pay for their children rather than those who assume others will."

Chicken and egg tho.

A lot of people are on benefits because they have conditions such as bipolar, BPD, LDs, ASD, addictions, yadda yadda which can render them genuinely incapable of making sensible decisions re; family planning and finances.

I can see that there are very good reasons for the benefit cap, as it does make the system fairer to bring claimants in line with the Just About Managings BUT it isn't going to stop those who are already living chaotic lives from having more children- and those children will suffer even more than they did before.

It is funny isn't it how contraception seems to work a lot better for those who have to pay for their children rather than those who assume others will.
No government figures to beat people with though, are there, so how would you know...

If they were not getting as much in benefits they wouldn't have them.

Not sure this is entirely true, I think it’s cultural. There are a lot of Roma near me and they had lots of kids when they arrived despite coming from Eastern European countries with virtually no welfare systems and usually attempts to exclude them if there was. TBH, a lot of them are most bothered about the fact their kids can get an education here because they are frequently denied access to education in their home countries.

It is funny isn't it how contraception seems to work a lot better for those who have to pay for their children rather than those who assume others will

Does it though? Or is it that lack of education, lack of opportunities, lack of basic knowledge of what options are available in the event of an unplanned pregnancy are a problem?

There's also the phenomenon that the idea of babies bring so much joy to an otherwise potentially bleak life.

Having watched "Babies behind Bars", there were women there who had multiple children taken into care but who very much loved having babies and the unconditional love that babies offer. I will try and find some studies or theory behind this.

Does it though? Or is it that lack of education, lack of opportunities, lack of basic knowledge of what options are available in the event of an unplanned pregnancy are a problem?

Oh for goodness sake. This kind of infantalising bollocks about people who claim benefits is bullshit. We have sex education in school. Everybody has access to free, confidential family planning advice to prevent pregnancy and the NHS for unwanted pregnancies.

If people are incapable of accessing these free and accessible services then they probably have learning or MH difficulties so severe they wouldn’t be allowed to bring up their child anyway.

After all, if you don’t know you should take a sick child to the doctor you probably aren’t parent material.

This kind of infantalising bollocks about people who claim benefits is bullshit

It’s not infantilising at all. The assumption that everyone has the same start in life and therefore the same attitudes, opinions, opportunities and education is naive at best. The assumption that people who have been written off by society have access to the same information and services as those who haven’t is ridiculous.

Having watched "Babies behind Bars", there were women there who had multiple children taken into care but who very much loved having babies and the unconditional love that babies offer. I will try and find some studies or theory behind this.

So do you think having baby after baby to temporarily (until they get big and annoying) fulfill a temporary egotistical urge on the part of parents?

Children bring joy as they grow up. If someone can only feel joy from babies and keep popping them out so there is always a baby there to satisfy their own ego then they are selfish and a shit parent incapable of putting the needs of your existing children above your own wants, and the state shouldn’t pander to that selfishness.

The assumption that people who have been written off by society have access to the same information and services as those who haven’t is ridiculous.

Please can you point me to the evidence showing the schools that don’t offer sex education and the areas of the country not served by the NHS? I would be very interested to see.

@Mightymucks where did I say that? You have a very narrow view of what people do and don’t have. Open your eyes and consider the possibility that childhood and poverty can and does have an impact on people.

What most people frothing at the mouth about benefits don’t seem to understand it that the vast majority of people on benefits are nothing like the caricature examples trotted out in the media and on channel 5 (propaganda, and it’s working a treat!)

Please Give people some respect. You are dishing out the propaganda with phrases like this. Are you trying to imply the people who watch these programmes are stupid and gullible and unable to form an opinion? There are people like this and even BBC Panorama did a program on this. There have been numerous documentaries around these subjects. It's not all Daily Mail and Channel 5. Belittling people doesn't help.

There are people like this and even BBC Panorama did a program on this. There have been numerous documentaries around these subjects. It's not all Daily Mail and Channel 5. Belittling people doesn't help

Anyone who can’t see that the cases in the media and on “documentaries” aren’t the majority, they’re not even the norm, don’t deserve respect. Because they’re being ridiculously stupid and gullible.

This kind of infantalising bollocks about people who claim benefits is bullshit. We have sex education in school. Everybody has access to free, confidential family planning advice to prevent pregnancy and the NHS for unwanted pregnancies

There is a world of difference between access to something and being able to control that access - whether that be opening hours, getting an appointment when you need it, education, personal circumstances including abuse, religious views, and a whole host of stuff that makes us individuals, it is never quite so easy to say ‘it’s there, use it’

@ohreallyohreallyoh thank you, I was beginning to wonder if what I’d written didn’t make sense.

Lots of these families claim 145 euro a month per child, get social welfare weekly payments, lots of their children have LD due to upbringing
.???????

Learning difficulties are a result of upbringing? Did you mean to write that?

What's happening on my workplace at the minute is an inability to get people to want promotion. It's a public sector banded paid job. The lower band pay is increasing as the NmW rises and the gap between lay bands is decreasing. However accountability and the expectations in job description are increasing.
People aren't willing to take on extra responsibility for £6 a month pay increase.

Forgot to add that the pressure this puts on service users and the service is terrible. This will have an effect generations down the line.

MightyMucks

So do you think having baby after baby to temporarily (until they get big and annoying) fulfill a temporary egotistical urge on the part of parents?

Literally, yes that's what I believe some women experience in their lives. When they are perhaps abused by the men in their lives, and then their sweet innocent babies turn into disadvantaged, difficult children, I believe it is the thought process of some to bring that joy back into their lives.

Children bring joy as they grow up. If someone can only feel joy from babies and keep popping them out so there is always a baby there to satisfy their own ego then they are selfish and a shit parent incapable of putting the needs of your existing children above your own wants, and the state shouldn’t pander to that selfishness

I absolutely never said it was right, of course it;'s not right, it's abhorrent. I was simply adding to the list of reasons why extremely disadvantaged people who in turn are from extremely disadvantaged backgrounds may not use the usual sensible thinking that others of us may do when it comes to family planning.

Simply ignoring it or saying it's shit doesn't really help anyone.

I think there is a huge disconnect in this country because, as a wealthy nation, some of us really don't appreciate that there are people in the same small country as you who are living a completely different kind of life; poverty is a real and insidious reality for, what are the recent figures, 20% of the entire population? A steadily increasing figure that only dipped in 2011 - 12? Those figures are disgraceful.

Poverty really does effect all aspects of life adversely. And this government is subjecting more and more people to a prospectless, race to the bottom life style. They do not make work pay, yet they don't want to support people through the state either. It's not patronizing to say that there are some seriously badly off people in this country, and it's not patronizing to refuse to ignore the known limitations that growing up in poverty places people.

Poverty really does effect all aspects of life adversely. And this government is subjecting more and more people to a prospectless, race to the bottom life style. They do not make work pay, yet they don't want to support people through the state either. It's not patronizing to say that there are some seriously badly off people in this country, and it's not patronizing to refuse to ignore the known limitations that growing up in poverty places people

Absolutely.

Yes, what SilverDoe says in her last post!!

Gilead Don't be stupid. I have known plenty of people who have kids from contraception failures who do not claim benefits.

@crunchymint Gilead was quoting (and disagreeing) with the poster who wrote that nasty comment, it wasn’t Gilead’s view.

Ah, apologies to Gilead

On Universal Credit? Rent from Clarion Housing?

www.buzzfeed.com/emilydugan/these-women-were-taken-to-court-for-eviction-because-of?utm_term=.wy60PmkgR#.cw3gM6ZaE