Exh confiscating DS phone.

[ilovemilton]

Here I am again! Exh is a knob. Mumsnet saves my sanity by generally agreeing with me and letting me have the moan that is probably getting boring to my RL friends.

DS contact alternate weekends. Last weekend, after an argument over gaming (where DS said he was being hacked and exh told him he was stupid), exh removed his phone. He does tend to do this a lot during contact, to prevent him calling me.

However, this time he has refused to let him bring it home with him on Monday.

Midweek contact was the same. Phone still not allowed.

I've text him today to say DS would like his phone back for the weekend, and as it is my property, he has no right to keep it for so long. He's refused. DS is understandably pissed off.

There's no answer to this really. Just wanted to rant!

Opinion not option

Limits of an Appeal Court

Appeal courts limit themselves to a review of the decision of the lower court unless a particularly category of appeal or the circumstances of the appeal it is considered in the interests of justice to hold a re-hearing. The appeal court will not usually hear oral evidence or evidence which was not before the lower court. The appeal court will allow an appeal where the decision of the lower court was wrong or unjust because of a serious procedural or other irregularity. The appeal court may draw any inference of fact which it considers justified on the evidence. A party may not rely on a matter not contained in that party’s appeal notice unless given permission by the appeal court.

If an appeal is considered to raise an important point of principle or practice or there is some other compelling reason for the court of appeal to hear it, the relevant court may order the appeal to be transferred to the court of appeal.

A ‘mistake in law’ is a Judge ignoring evidence from several ‘experts’

It’s not. It SHOULD be, I agree wholeheartedly, but it’s not a mistake “in law”

Again, evidence of abuse is subjective. If there are no independent witnesses or convictions it is dismissed.

I’m sorry that I’m banging on but you need to understand that OP CAN’T do anything to change this, her hands are tied. And believe me when I tell you that is the most awful feeling.

Smed you and I are not solicitors. I’m suggesting that OP seeks legal advice. Plenty of free legal advice.

I just copied and pasted some info from a legal site. A ‘mistake in Law’ is not the only grounds.

Fair enough, I’m not a solicitor. My cousin is though, but what do I know.

OP I get it, I really do.

I've had legal advice. Smed is right. Solicitor warned I would risk losing the DC. I've spoken to a few over the years and they have all been in complete disbelief of the blatant blinkered behaviour of the judge and guardian. Particularly the one who spent a whole day arguing in court against the guardians view that exh should have every Christmas Day, because he works the other days.

That's not to say we don't wish you were right shedmice.

That's not to say we don't wish you were right shedmice

I agree with this. It is the most frustrating, heartbreaking, unfair, unjust system. Child Welfare is a misnomer too, it’s fuck all to do with the welfare of the child. It’s bullshit.

Smed it’s not an insult! I don’t see what your cousin being a solicitor has to do with anything! My Nephew is a Barrister, however knows nothing of Family Law

I’m not understanding why anyone would take offence at advising the OP to seek legal advice

@Shedmicehugh1 she is a family law solicitor and I asked her advice about this thread (in the context of can you appeal family court decisions).

I was getting irritated because OP has repeatedly explained there’s nothing you can do, and instead of accepting that you kept on and on at a Mum already battered and bruised by a system that doesn’t give a shit.

I’m sorry if I went too far, but you just were not listening to people who have been through a system you haven’t as if we somehow hadn’t a clue and you were sure you were right.

OP you said you didn’t have any evidence at the last hearing of violence and abuse.

You now do.

You seemed unaware of the grounds for appeal. Which makes me think not the best legal advice.

Anyhow my suggestions appear not to have been helpful. So I will leave it there

They said I didn't have evidence. Because I couldn't recall dates and times. Evidence such as recordings are disallowed so there is no difference between the recordings I had from years ago and the most recent recordings.

@ilovemilton I wish I had the answers, I really do. It feels like all they have to do is turn up in a cheap suit and do their best wobbling lip “but I love my children” and it’s all over.

Smed you have no idea of what I’ve been through!

At no point did I say I was right, you seem to be the only one doing that, quoting Scottish Law!!

I was making suggestions and providing links to UK Law! I appreciate the OP must be battered and bruise by the fight. However, if my children were being physically and emotionally abused, I would welcome any suggestions or any info!

Anyhow I will leave you to it.

Smed you have no idea of what I’ve been through!

I don’t, you're right. I’d be willing to bet my house it isn’t the child welfare system. In court. Against the system that is relevant to this thread. Because you’re still banging on and on and on. Stop it.

From what you have said here, your ex must have kept diary dates and "evidence" that showed his side of the argument in your manipulation of the kids so that the Judge (and Guardian) would side with him. I hope you are now keeping a diary and documenting everything so should things kick off you have dates etc to hand should you go back to court. If any witnesses, your solicitor should get them to sign an affidavit, which should have happened with regards to the NSPCC report and friend. Those witnesses should also be told they may be required to turn up at court if necessary.

I have to admit at this point, I used to work in the court system and I am shocked at what you have described having never witnessed anything like this. I hope that means that cases like yours are very few and far between and not the norm. If you feel this would help give you some resolve, I would look at contacting Coram, not for advice as you feel that road is closed for you, but to give your experience of how the system as it stands is not supporting your children. Your experience may help shape future policy. Best of luck.

The NSPCC friend remains anonymous to this date! I have had several friends offer statements and even their own photos, but these have been disallowed as they are impartial.

I would contact conram if you think they would be interested. I tried before to ask for help but they were unable to offer much.

Incidentally, the evidence that I did originally provide, that was disallowed due to no dates etc, was used by exh word for word except for switching our names, to gain himself legal aid. It's cost me a fortune to battle his endless petty returns to court.

Are not impartial

@iovemilton you have my internet hugs. Whether you want them or not

My experience of family law in the UK is 16 years ago. My experience with Irish family law is ongoing.

@smeddum is correct with saying that it is up to the judge whether or not they wish to see said text/recording.

Family court is already full and they dont care unless the solicitor is able to present this as new and relevant information. Even then, they exercise their own discretion. Quite frankly they are too bloody busy.

Family law court is a shit place to be.

An access order is a civil order which carries potentially criminal consequences. If you breach it, the other party can call the Gards who will note it and tell you to take it back through the civil court.

My order says that The Idiot has access on dates/times X, Y and Z. I must therefore make the children available for access at this point. If a reasonable time elapses and he hasnt turned up, then I can refuse the entire access period. I could go on for ages about this, but wont.

Once you are in the court system you can't really get out. If you act outside the court order, you are technically breaching it- even if you are both in agreement. If you want something altered it has to be put before the court (be it a mutual agreement or a hearing) and have it signed by a judge. Court Orders dont disappear.

My heart truly does go out to OP because once you're on that hamster wheel, minds have been made up.

Judges do not like to go against each other.

My ex-idiot has a nutbag girlfriend who is a flaming nutjob. The things she says and does... there's nothing I can do. This is on advice from solicitors, family law lecturers and doctors. Emotional abuse is the hardest to prove as it takes time to build. In the meantime, I dont stop them hating her and let them call her 'the Emmaroid'.

There is nothing I can do at this point. I truly feel for OP.

Hugs gratefully accepted and returned. It's shit isn't it.

I don't really ask on here for answers, it's just a way of getting my anger out instead and it makes me feel a little less insane when people are saying they have experienced similar.

@ShawshanksRedemption How do Coram want feedback on the family court system? Because I am really happy to provide my views on the broken corrupt system that exists in England, particularly if you are mother. The professional participants only seem to care about the process, not about the individuals involved and how damaging the outcomes can be.

I've seen similar - but from the other side. Terrible awful treatment of fathers treated as lesser, second rate parents excluded from so much because of their sex. I view the court system and situations like this with extreme distrust after what I've seen. Mumsnet (generally, with exceptions) perpetuates this attitude of mothers being the only worthwhile parent, with a begrudging, resentful nod to the equally-as-relevant-and-important father. I'm not surprised that so many men give up the fight, for their own sanity and to stop children being destroyed by many mothers attempts to hold compete control. Until the last couple of years, I was completely naive to this state of affairs. Now I believe it to be a massive awful scandal that urgently needs addressing, with an automatic presumption of 50/50 care as is becoming the norm in some other countries.

50/50 as standard benefits warring parents. It doesn’t benefit a child or children who get bounced from house to house without a solid base.

The court system certainly did not favour me, and it didn’t consider the welfare of my son. I got him an advocacy worker, totally impartial and unbiased, arranged visits in school and at home (I would be out of the room and told DS1 there were no wrong answers, it was about how he felt and what he wanted, nothing else).

She had screeds of information she’d taken from DS1, all of them saying that he didn’t want to see his dad, that his dad scared him and hurt his feelings. Same information from DS1s headteacher.

Sheriff never bothered to read any of it.

He didn't want 50:50. He wanted every weekend and half the holidays. It's in the order that he takes no responsibility during school hours, if they close or the child is sick.

As a parent he should be able to discipline his child and that means removing the use of the phone. But, when your ds comes back to you at the handover he should have given you the phone and told you what the punishment was and why, he has no right to keep it.