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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

DH didn’t stop when I said stop

783 replies

bijouhibou · 04/05/2018 00:26

First time having sex after post childbirth vaginal surgery. All was well - better than expected - until very near his climax and I said stop because I was uncomfortable. He said he was going to come, carried on then came about 5 seconds later. I was in great pain and brought tears to my eyes. He was v supportive afterwards but those 5 secs were awful.

I know it’s physically difficult for men to stop when the floodgates open, so to speak, but AIBU re: those 5 seconds?

OP posts:
Luisa27 · 07/05/2018 07:59

@Lizzie48 - so sorry to hear this Lizzie, my heart goes out to you

Lizzie48 · 07/05/2018 08:00

I do know that only too well, Pengggwn I found that out when I was a young child sadly. Or else they see your body as their property, which was how it was with my F. I was saying how it should be, and why the OP's DH's behaviour is inexcusable.

2andcountingtodate · 07/05/2018 08:02

ItsNotAboutBeingRightYouKnow I would like to know how the OP is doing but I doubt she will be be back as her last post showed that she knew her husband had treated her badly and if she were giving advice to a friend it would be for them to leave and offer her sofa.

If she is feeling like she wants to work on her relationship with her husband and ignore or forgive the rape then reading posters sating it's rape won't help. Equally if she's devastated and feels he's done wrong and is believing it is or may be rape then posters defending her husbands behaviour won't help either.

So I doubt she will be back but the thread continues because it's obviously important enough to posters to state their opinions and what they feel is right, regardless if it's on one side or the other.

Luisa27 · 07/05/2018 08:02

@BettyBaggins - oh this is such a lovely post

mathanxiety · 07/05/2018 08:03

Luisa:
I kept on reading because I’m interested in the views of others, and I like to hear them - especially in situations where ( to me) there is no rigid black/white definition
I also feel It’s important to express our personal views in important issues like this one, because otherwise the whole thread can become an echo chamber of people vociferously stating the same ‘facts’ over and over

But there is a black/white definition.

And there are facts, not "facts".

Sex without consent/sex once consent has been withdrawn equals rape.
Why do you keep on insisting this is just the opinion of a bunch of typical Mumsnet shrieking harpies?
It's the legal definition of rape. It doesn't matter if you don't feel there is a definition.

.....................
And why do you keep on quoting your husband to us? Are we supposed to be impressed that A Man Has Spoken and told us what silly ninnies we are to be bothering our pretty little heads about such trifles?

Pumperthepumper · 07/05/2018 08:05

its ok to kick someone you love in the goolies if they are hurting you

What the fuck? Why, when ‘stop that hurts’ should be enough?

Pengggwn · 07/05/2018 08:06

I love how all the highly concerned people talking about how others discussing (pointing out) the definition of rape are basically abusing the OP. Erm, nope. The OP has been abused, but not by me. In my opinion, it is in her interests to do whatever she wants to do, but properly equipped with facts, not with misogyny disguised as sympathy.

Luisa27 · 07/05/2018 08:10

@Pengwyyyn
You misunderstood me - I’m not asserting anything

To clarify - definitely not asserting - ‘to me’, how I see it, in my opinion et al

Pengggwn · 07/05/2018 08:14

Luisa27

I see your definition of 'assertion' is no better than your definition of 'rape'.

Can you answer me? Why are you so keen to disregard the actual, factual definition of 'rape'?

mathanxiety · 07/05/2018 08:19

When you say something is 'how you see it' or 'to you', as if that matters, you are dismissing the reality.

'How you see it' in this case that rape is in the eye of the 'beholder', that it is also in the mind and heart of the male involved, and that it is a really nebulous and conditional thing with all sorts of circumstantial factors swirling around it, and impossible to define.

All of which is completely incorrect, wrong, and very harmful to women as a class and to individual women including the OP.

Pengggwn · 07/05/2018 08:22

It's like saying, 'To me, elephants have six legs' or 'To me, water flows upwards', then expecting others to concede the subjectivity of the terms 'elephants', 'six', 'water' etc. Those concepts have definitions, so I can't just ignore them and say 'Oh well, it's complicated.' No, it isn't.

Lizzie48 · 07/05/2018 08:26

I actually agree that the OP very likely won't be back now. It won't be helpful to her to keep hearing that it was rape and she should call the police. She needs time to process what happened and to make her own decisions.

I remember when my DSis was disclosing the DV she suffered in her first marriage. She wouldn't allow us to say a word against him at the time. She came to her own decisions, filed for divorce herself and found herself somewhere to live.

Now that she's moved on and is in a loving relationship, she knows exactly what her ex was. But she had to realise it for herself. The OP was starting to realise what her DH had done was very wrong, but she needs to have space to make her own decisions.

Luisa27 · 07/05/2018 08:29

@Pengwyyyn - I ‘can’ answer you, yes - whether I want to debate and dissect this area of the Law with a pedantic stranger at just after 8 on a Bank Holiday morning is another matter Grin - sorry only teasing Peng
Our children are with my DPs for the day, and I’m about to enjoy a delicious, and much anticipated breakfast in bed.
Enjoy the bank hol everyone - hope you all have as lovely a day as we intend to

mathanxiety · 07/05/2018 08:31

So - clarifying the law, repeating the legal definition, and insisting that words have solid, well understood meanings is now pedantry?

ItsNotAboutBeingRightYouKnow · 07/05/2018 08:35

My point was that if we are here to participate on this thread because we genuinely care about OP and her future well being we will be able to discuss the different viewpoints that have been aired without reverting to demonizing those who disagree with us, because all that will matter is that we support and encourage OP, and that she is ultimately ok.

The validation of our opinion on the situation will not be the paramount objective, nor will it actually be important to us.

However, the language and tone that has been used by many towards those who disagree with them has been truly awful..which to the outside observer suggests that what's really going on here now is a need to be right at all costs, regardless of the cost to the other participants, or ultimately the OP.

I would respectfully suggest that resorting to this kind of aggressive discussion where we verbally destroy each other does nothing to advance the cause of all those women we say we care so much about, and that primarily includes the OP.

CollyWombles · 07/05/2018 08:49

'it won't be helpful to the OP'

I don't think that's for anyone but the OP to decide? Or is she not allowed to have her own opinions as well as not allowed to stop painful sex?

Once again, this thread is so sad to read. The amount of posts minimising rape is scary. When we still live in times where rape is minimised and dismissed, it is especially important to remember that NO means NO.

As said before, this is a discussion forum. It is perfectly possible to be concerned for the OP and to challenge the minimising, dismissive, apologist posters. Especially concerning rape. It is also possible to have misplaced concern. Like encouraging a woman who has been raped to believe it isn't rape.

Addy2 · 07/05/2018 08:53

I do worry for the future of womankind. Yes, it was rape. Rape is not conditional on whether you love the perpetrator or whether he's a good father. No one is obligated to report rape- if the OP chooses not to, that's up to her. However, it is important that anyone coming on here knows that it is rape and they can report it and be taken seriously if something similar happens to them. That they are entitled to rape counselling if they require it. That they aren't being melodramatic. Telling them it's not rape does cut them off from avenues of support they may need to access. Teenagers come on this site - do we really want them going away with the message that it's OK if their boyfriends carry on when consent has been withdrawn as long as he was close to finishing and he is otherwise a good partner? That it's undesirable behaviour that warrants a ticking off but that any reaction above that is an overreaction and unreasonable? Seems like a slippery slope to me- our bodily autonomy has been so hard-won and could be so easily lost if we take it for granted.

mustbemad17 · 07/05/2018 08:57

I'd like to put a different spin on this, call it an experiment if you will.

Imagine the OP was slightly different;

I went out last night, met a guy, we got talking. It went well, we ended up at his place & things progressed. Whilst we were having sex i started to feel uncomfortable & asked him to stop. He replied that he was coming & carried on until he had finished. It made me feel awful & i had tears in my eyes. He was really supportive afterwards but those few seconds after i said stop were horrible

I wonder if anybody's view on it changes?

mathanxiety · 07/05/2018 09:00

It is really, really important that the definition of rape is understood and accepted. The definition is not mere opinion. It is fact.

Women are powerless until we understand and can name what is done to us. If we can't do that, we go about our lives wondering if it is reasonable for us to feel troubled after an incident the like of which the OP described followed by the defensive justification her H gave her. Knowing where you stand is essential when you want to stand up to someone who has done you wrong and is trying to assert that you are unreasonable, over sensitive, or any of the other attempts at silencing that goes on in so many relationships.

When one poster after another appears to dispute the legal definition, and to claim that actually it's really hard to define what happened because:

  1. we weren't there (and therefore it's her word against his);
  2. he may be a good husband/father apart from the one time he raped you and tried to shut you up afterwards;
  3. it's only rape if you are beaten almost to death in an alley;
  4. whatever....

...then it is really important to insist that rape really is defineable, and to keep on doing that, in the face of very unreasonable opposition, for as long as it takes.

Lizzie48 · 07/05/2018 09:03

Of course she's welcome to have her own opinions, that's the point! As she hasn't been back, it's reasonable to consider that maybe she wasn't finding it helpful. I hope she's getting RL support and I very much agree that Rape Crisis is the best place for that. I found calling their helpline was a great support to me. If you are reading this, @bijouhibou then do call them. They often don't answer, as the phones are manned by volunteers, but if you leave a message they always call you back. Thanks

AnyFucker · 07/05/2018 09:05

I just donot understand how those of you defending this man's actions can still feel the same after reading the perfectly articulated posts of people like math and peng and many others

I would be interested to know how people initially thought "the man just made a mistake" and if they now have a different conclusion

Pengggwn · 07/05/2018 09:08

Luisa27

Your accusation of pedantry and quick dart for the exit is noted, Luisa. Can't or won't answer - it makes no difference to the facts.

JAPAB · 07/05/2018 09:11

I wonder if anybody's view on it changes?

Doesn't make that much difference to me personally. It would all hinge on whether he could have had a reasonable belief that consent had been re-instated. Whether husband or ONS.

BettyBaggins · 07/05/2018 09:13

@Itsnotaboutbeingrightyouknow is so right!

And yes, @pumperthepumper if someone you love turns on you, doesnt take no for answer, its perfectly ok to protect yourself then get the feck outta there whether thats a kick in the nuts or a jaw jut. I can personally attest to that. Hmm

mathanxiety · 07/05/2018 09:20

mustbemad - I think in that situation there would be a certain amount of judging of a woman who would go with someone she didn't know too well to his place, because women can't win for losing...