DH didn’t stop when I said stop

[bijouhibou]

First time having sex after post childbirth vaginal surgery. All was well - better than expected - until very near his climax and I said stop because I was uncomfortable. He said he was going to come, carried on then came about 5 seconds later. I was in great pain and brought tears to my eyes. He was v supportive afterwards but those 5 secs were awful.

I know it’s physically difficult for men to stop when the floodgates open, so to speak, but AIBU re: those 5 seconds?

We know that she had tears in her eyes. We know that she was in pain. We can reasonably know that she was not an active participant in sex for the time it took for him to orgasm. We can reasonably assume that this man was aware that his wife had had vaginal surgery a few weeks ago and that he was hurting her surgery site.

Would it be different if she had had a CS and he was for some reason poking her scar?

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying Windthebobbinup.

Because the crime is sex without consent.

Not sure what your problem here is. The crux is consent.

What you are saying is that a yes given an hour before is good until the man finishes off or loses interest and that a subsequent No form the woman is negotiable or can be ignored.

What you are implying is that one No is only worth a fraction of another No.

The major implication of all of this is that once a man starts having sex he doesn't have to stop until he decides to.

JAPAB

The OP told him to stop. If she subsequently consented, her entire post is utterly bizarre. She says nothing like that, so this is not a 'grey area' type situation, unless you wish to engage in baseless supposition.

So, although I do agree it is reasonable to carry on if and when you have consent, I do not agree it is reasonable to carry on if you don't. Because that is rape.

mathanxiety if you are facing someone, have your eyes open, can see that they are in pain and have tears in their eyes, yet carry on anyway, then clearly your partner has big problems in addition to the initial not stopping.

JAPAB

Yep. They're a rapist.

JAPAB

But that isn't 'in addition', is it?

Very well said @somefolkaresoentitled

This really is about the OP - and us being supportive.

I’m sure we all hope that she and DH move forward together with complete respect and understanding, within a happy, loving relationship.

I don't understand why it is a difficult concept tbh. If you remove consent at any point - be that with the word no, or stop, or similar - and somebody continues, it is rape. There are no 'levels' of rape, there is no leeway based on whether someone rapes you for seconds or for minutes. The psychological impact of rape can be the same whether it involves extreme violence or someone being a selfish prick & ignoring your voice.

No it's not more damaging necessarily, except that the victim can be more physically injured, and in some cases tragically murdered. So that should be taken into account in the sentencing, and it is.

But psychologically I don't think there is a difference. Long after the physical injuries have healed the psychological damage remains. Like domestic violence, the psychological damage is the same, but the physical injuries are more serious in some cases than others.

Pinch yourself really hard so it hurts and keep holding it while reading this out loud at a slow pace

"One Mississippi, two Mississippi, three Mississippi, four Mississippi, five Mississippi"

Now instead of just having pinched yourself for those five seconds, imagine your DH forcing you to endure sex for the first time for those five seconds.

Five seconds is a fucking long time when it hurts

Pengggwn The OP told him to stop. If she subsequently consented, her entire post is utterly bizarre.

Not at all. Rape is about what the male believes, and whether what he believes is reasonable. Nothing precludes the other party from having a different perspective independently of whether what the male happened to believe was reasonable or not.

I am speaking generally here. I am no longer going to to dissect whether what happened to the OP is rape in a way that would lead to a conviction, or not.

What I will say is that irrespective of technical discussions on legality (and I am not asserting that it wasn't rape) we can all agree that he really should have just stopped.

Just a thought guys.....

Maybe a new thread for those of you who’d like to argue the technicalities, ad infinitum, is a good idea?

This pedantic bickering seems to have moved away from the interests of the OP

because that’s what it is - YOUR point of view - not THE point of view

No, it's the law. Continuing after the withdrawal of consent, at any time, is rape - posters are getting frustrated at people dismissing this fact.

It reminds me of the (albeit small) study where a third of men (32%) questioned said they would use force to obtain sex, but the number reduced dramatically when they were asked if they would rape somebody (13.6% still, a shocking number) even though in law, it is essentially the same thing. Rape myths, many of which are depressingly displayed on this thread, go some way to explain this discrepancy. There is no grace period (good god ), withdrawal of consent is not negated by a mans time to climax - these attitudes need to be challenged, or it will continue to be 'ok' to rape, as long as we don't call it that.

Yes, the OP said she didn't feel as though she was raped - but she also said if the same happened to her friend she would be looking after them and giving them a sofa for the night, so she is clearly distressed by the incident. Minimising her experience into no big deal is dangerous, not just for the OP, but for all those reading with similar experiences and those who face with juries with similar attitudes.

Rape is rape.

TRIGGER WARNING

Women who have actually been physically beaten, restrianed, had their clothes torn, bones broken and unimaginably violated.... would find the comparison of this scenario

I've spoken about my childhood SA before. On one occasion I was raped at knifepoint at 8 years old. But that was by a stranger to me. His accomplice had groomed my DSis and me. He was no less guilty than the man holding the knife.

But the one who caused the most hurt to me was my abusive father, who allowed it all to happen. He was the one I should have been able to trust.

If my DH did anything like this, that would be the worst betrayal of all.

The OP is minimising the betrayal understandably. Which is understandable, but not healthy. Your DH needs to face up to what he did, not just claim he was past the point of no return, which is the rubbish that my rape apologists have bought into.

.....or maybe the OP knows her DH and the intricacies of the situation a lot better than any of us?

@bijouhibou

This seems to have turned into a discussion about rape. In answer to your opening post I don't think you're being unreasonable to be angry and upset about what happened.

If my DH did what yours did I wouldn't feel I'd been raped but I would be upset at his selfishness and lack of care. I'd be making it very clear that we wouldn't be having sex again until I felt ready and that he had to stop immediately if I said so.

Imo he's been a selfish prick, but not a rapist.

Sadly, these are the exact places where we do need to have these discussions, because, as we can all see, rape myths are perpetuated in real contexts, exactly like this.

I am leaving the thread now, thoroughly disappointed and sickened at some of the contortions certain posters will go through to try to minimise and redefine a crime.

"Maybe a new thread for those of you who’d like to argue the technicalities, ad infinitum, is a good idea? This pedantic bickering seems to have moved away from the interests of the OP"

How noble of you Luisa. You might have some credibility if you hadn't chosen to post your own rape appologist POV barely 10 minutes previously:

"I’m sure we all hope that she and DH move forward together with complete respect and understanding, within a happy, loving relationship."

So you get to advise her to forgive and forget and now everyone else should just shut up?

You don't care about the OP, you just care about having the last word. Your word is toxic though so I for one will not quietly shut up, thank you.

My wife was repeatedly raped by her first husband. Sometimes violently, but most of the time simply him refusing to take no for an answer. She stuck it out for almost 10 years. In no small part because, when in the early days she found the courage to go to her mother for support, she was met with an attitude like yours. More than 20 years have past since she got free of him and despite professional counselling and all the support I can give her she still carries the emotional scars. She will never be fully healed. She still has nightmares sometimes. I'll tell you something I know as fact. She is haunted just as much, if not more so, by the passive rapes as the violent ones.

I can't go back and change her mother's attitude. I'm beyond glad though that we raised our son and daughters to have a no means no, stop means stop, one strike and you're out attitude to consent. We have equipped our daughters not to endure what their mother endured. We have raised our son to understand that a woman has an absolute right to consent. If you pass on your attitude to your kids and you are raising them to be victims, or rapists. If you are a victim yourself then please realise that you don't have to accept it, you don't have to forgive and forget.

This debate must be had, because the OP is not an isolated case. For every woman who is violently raped by a stranger, there are hundreds more passively raped, often repeatedly, by husbands, partners or acquantances. It will not change as long as we have people like you trying to minimimize and excuse it.

I don't think this discussion will have been helpful to the op. There should have been a separate thread to discuss the definition of rape. The op did not ask if she had been raped and stated she didn't feel like what happened was rape, to be told she was wrong. How is that helpful to her.

@Sofialemon

Very very well said.

TooTrueToBeGood well said.

I was repeatedly raped by my late husband. This was back in the time when rape within marriage was not a crime.

I asked my mother for support. She told me it was a woman's lot.

We don't know how the OP feels anymore. She may still feel it wasn't rape or she may now be wondering or believing it was. Yesterday she was clear that she felt uneasy about his actions and had it been a friend in her situation then she would have offered her couch to get away from her spouse. While she may not then have seen it as rape, the OP knew it was very wrong and it was affecting her relationship.

I just hope she's ok and her shit of a husband isn't trying to minimise still.

Your DM sounds like mine, speakout. How awful that you didn't get her support when you needed it.

Her advice was to 'lie down and think of England.' This was when I was having horrific flashbacks from my childhood SA, and couldn't cope with sex with my DH.

Thankfully for me, my DH didn't want that at all.

Lizzie48 thanks. And I am so glad you stood up for your rights and you have a partner who thinks the way he does.

My late OH would beat me too- again my mother's advice was not to make him so angry.

My mother's only sex education was " sex is horrible for a woman but something we have to put up with".

Thankfully I now have a partner who supports and respects me.