DH didn’t stop when I said stop

[bijouhibou]

First time having sex after post childbirth vaginal surgery. All was well - better than expected - until very near his climax and I said stop because I was uncomfortable. He said he was going to come, carried on then came about 5 seconds later. I was in great pain and brought tears to my eyes. He was v supportive afterwards but those 5 secs were awful.

I know it’s physically difficult for men to stop when the floodgates open, so to speak, but AIBU re: those 5 seconds?

All you have to do is understand the radical idea that even though one party to the sex is a woman, she still has the right to say No or Stop, and even though the other party is a man, he still has to do what he is told to do by the woman. In other words, women have the absolute right to give and to withdraw consent and men are absolutely obliged to do what they are told. Topsy turvy world, eh?

If DP asked me to stop, I would. Immediately. Because sex has got to be consensual. It has to be. You’re making out that women don’t have the right to withdraw consent and that’s not true.

Sorry I misunderstood your post. Ugh I’m confusing myself.

No I'm not, Smeddum.

I am saying the complete opposite.

You need a better justification for that than 'some people are thick'. Why does the fact that I consented to sex initially make it less of a crime to continue to penetrate me after I have withdrawn that consent? Surely consent is either mine to give and therefore mine to withdraw, or it isn't? I don't understand why you think there should be a sliding scale of rape

It doesn’t make it less of a crime.

I explicitly said there shouldn’t be a sliding scale.

Yes, consent is absolutely yours to withdraw at any time.

All of that was in my post.

And I think it’s necessary to have different descriptors or language to describe the different circumstances in which rapes happen because, unfortunately, lots of people are thick.

x-post

@mathanxiety I know, I’m sorry. I realised that and said so just as you did.

Although my confusion illustrates perfectly how it would be easy to bamboozle someone with semantics. If there weren’t apologists and there wasn’t a need to argue that withdrawal of consent means any continuation of sex is rape, then confusion wouldn’t be an issue.

RandomWordsStuckTogether

Of course you are saying one is less bad, otherwise, why attempt to draw the distinction? Unless, of course, you are saying the penalty for 'conditional' rape should be the same as the penalty for 'rape', which would make them both 'rape', which is what we have at the moment.

You bewilder me.

But the apologists/excusers on here have not only infuriated me, they’ve made me realise that some women will never get the support they deserve because these people will always get tied up with semantics or minor points

Yes this is it exactly. I suppose what I want to say is that we need a different language around rape that shuts down the semantic picking apart of irrelevant aspects and direct the focus back to the main issue which is that when consent is not given or withdrawn, it is unequivocally rape. No matte the circumstances.

Random, rewriting it to make different categories would involve diluting the basic concept.

The problem really isn't that the concept of consent isn't understood.

The problem is that so many people feel entitled to ignore the consent aspect. This is rooted in the notion that women are property and the allied notion that men are entitled to women's bodies.

RandomWordsStuckTogether

But you are the one picking it apart 😂

I suppose what I want to say is that we need a different language around rape that shuts down the semantic picking apart of irrelevant aspects and direct the focus back to the main issue which is that when consent is not given or withdrawn, it is unequivocally rape

If people understand that, why has there been 22 pages of people arguing about a case where consent was withdrawn but sex continued? Thus making it rape.

People are choosing to misunderstand.

I accept rape has a binary definition, and what the OP’s DH did rape her. However, the reason many people struggle with that is there are some that take the logic that “rape is rape” to mean “all rape is equally appalling and should receive the same sentence if convicted”, whereas they would, in my opinion rightly, view that a man who has forced himself on someone who hasn’t given consent from the outset has committed a more serious offence of rape (both rape) that the OPs DH.

@Windthebobbinup1982 I’ve been raped. By my then husband. It’s not different.

I accept rape has a binary definition, and what the OP’s DH did rape her. However, the reason many people struggle with that is there are some that take the logic that “rape is rape” to mean “all rape is equally appalling and should receive the same sentence if convicted”, whereas they would, in my opinion rightly, view that a man who has forced himself on someone who hasn’t given consent from the outset has committed a more serious offence of rape (both rape) that the OPs DH.

Again, what the FUCK?

Man chooses not to withdraw from my vagina when I tell him to.

Man chooses to penetrate my vagina because he feels like it.

How on earth is the former less appalling than the latter? Based on what?

@wherewithal - what you’ve written makes perfect sense to me. I just woke up and caught up with this thread, and I’m heartened by many of the opinions aired..not that me feeling heartened is remotely significant btw, it’s just how I feel.

SOME of the replies on this thread, the ‘shouting down’ of differing opinions, the aggressive, dogmatic and often very ‘sweary’ posts are really unnecessary. You honestly don’t need to write ‘fuck’ numerous times to make your point.

As many others have highlighted, we all having differing views based on the nuances and subtleties of the situation. And I utterly respect the OP’s view that she wasn’t raped. She was there, we weren’t.
To suggest that people who don’t wholly agree with you ‘can’t comprehend’ or ‘don’t understand’ your point of view ( because that’s what it is - YOUR point of view - not THE point of view) is incredibly patronising. Instead, try to accept that others don’t always have to agree with you.

Debate is healthy

Of course you are saying one is less bad, otherwise, why attempt to draw the distinction? Unless, of course, you are saying the penalty for 'conditional' rape should be the same as the penalty for 'rape', which would make them both 'rape', which is what we have at the moment.

I’m not saying one is less bad.

I think there should only be one crime of rape, with one penalty.

But I also think that it might be useful to look at what different language can be used to label rape when it happens, to help people who struggle to understand that rape is a binary crime and not mitigated by any other factors to do with perception or the relationship between the parties or anything else.

Like on this thread, OP withdrew consent during sex and her DH didn’t respect that. At the point she said stop and he didn’t stop it became a rape. But there’s loads of nonsense being spouted about ‘grace periods’ and the like.

I am merely wondering aloud on this thread whether, if there was a way of naming rape that happens under those circumstances, it might help those people who are currently hard of understanding finally comprehend.

Other people have understood all that from my post. I don’t know why you haven’t.

How on earth is the former less appalling than the latter? Based on what?

One involves a pre-meditated and protracted act of continuous aggression,
the other a (totally unacceptable) lack of self-control for 5 seconds in a moment of high arousal. Both are rape, and both are deserving of condemnation. However, the former is nonetheless a more heinous crime.

Rape has a binary definition?
No it doesn't - absence of consent equals rape.
This is the only definition.

Withdrawal of consent after it was first given is no more and no less significant than consent never given.

The basic premise - lack of consent - is the only point to consider.

A man continuing to have sex after being told to stop is forcing himself on his partner.

It is not a more heinous crime.
FFS.

Sex without consent is the crime, and the law says nothing about how long the forced sex lasts. One thrust from a stranger in an alley or five seconds of pumping from a husband lost in the throes of utter selfishness - it's all the same.

mathanxiety

I think you’re misunderstanding me. When i said rape had a binary definition, I meant exactly what you’re saying... It’s binary as in: “consent given” - not rape. “consent not given” - rape. I don’t think it’s at all helpful to think in terms of “well, it was kind of rape, but not really”.

Pengggwn But this is not what happened here. The woman said stop. He didn't. There was no 'Oh go on then' (consent). It was rape.

I really do not want to dissect the specific situation of the OP. But we don't know what was said or done after his comment about being about to finish, and whether or not it would be reasobable to take this as 'finish off then'. Now maybe it was the case that there was nothing remotely resembling that. I am certainly not going to assert that there was.

So just sticking to general principles. Despite nothing in law to allow for grace periods, we can agree that np-one will get convicted for not immediately withdrawing, and then carrying on IF it was reasonable to think this was being allowed.

Of course, we can also agree that it is best just withdraw straight away irrespective of whether or not the law would take an interest.

It is not a more heinous crime.

Are you seriously saying that the sentence in both examples should identical?

There isn't a sliding scale in terms of what's defined as rape. Obviously, there are also aggravating features, like if the perpetrator has committed the crime multiple times, used intimidation etc, and judges can take account of that when sentencing.

This is the same with murder, there are minimum tariffs, going up to whole life terms.

Why are people still arguing over whether one 'type' of rape is more damaging than the other? Can i ask those who think 'violent' rape is more damaging than that involving removing consent, have you ever experienced both? Or are you basing your thoughts on the bullshit notice that because something wasn't planned & violent enough it somehow has less of an impact?