Not allowing my daughters to attend a wedding

[BananasAreTheSourceOfEvil]

This might be long but I will try to keep it as short as I can.

My ex's sister is getting married in June. I am also supposed to attend a wedding where my DP is the best man on the same day.

This day is one that falls on a day of my access.

Ex and I have a long history with going to court for access. Ex is egocentric and rather than thinking about what is best for the children's stability always puts his own wants and needs before theirs in terms of access (got drunk/hungover a lot and didnt turn up- cue me getting a court order, changes shifts to suit his lifestyle and expects me to change both the children's life and mine to suit his).

His last shift change was a year ago and the court order no longer suited him and he turns up to avail of access as and when he wants. If theres a racing festival on, or a friend's birthday or the opening of an envelope, he will say he cant collect the kids at the allotted time.

I have acted over the past three years under legal advice because he is such a tool, that if he is not there to collect the children (notwithstanding traffic delays, legitimate reasons) that I do not have to allow him to take them.

He has been told by a judge to stop complaining and that he works around the children: the children dont work around him. He has ignored this.

I am truly sick of being treated like a doormat. Last week, he let me know with 1.5hrs before he was supposed to collect the children from school that he wouldnt be there and I must go. He has a conviction from ignoring a court order to stop harassing me.

I stick to my court order as if I give him an inch he takes a mile. Then some more.

He and his sister arranged our daughters to be flower girls at her wedding. She has bought them dresses. No one ever asked me or even bothered to tell me the date. As I knew this was my day with the kids, I went ahead and made my own plans to go to my BIL's wedding.

I only found out the date of his sister's wedding because I know someone in the hotel it's happening in. The assumption has been all along that I would just give in and say yes.

Ive had everything from him from 'youre a cow/bitch/cunt/insert other word here' to 'thats her godmother/what do you think the girls would choose' to his sister saying that she thinks my approach to his access is 'inhumane' and accusing me of not turning up to court to remedy access (there was no court date, apparently he went to get application papers that I do not need to be there for and had no knowledge of).

She has said how devasatated she is, and why would I prioritise this wedding over hers: a) I didnt know when it was; b) no one told me of these plans.

I have sent Ex future access proposals, have always been reasonable (I may not like the bugger, but the kids love him and I have always facillitated as much of equal weekend access as I can because of this.) but he hasnt moved his backside to change the access order he claims is soooooo unfair to him. Hes had fifteen months to do this, and all I get is a weekly threat to 'take me back to court'.

He can do it! I even told him which form to get, how to fill it out and explained it to him.

I am just sick to my back teeth of being treated like a doormat. He slots the children in around his life, I get treated like a babysitter and my life and anything I want to do is ignored. Im still having this wanker control my life nearly six years after splitting up, because he knows that anytime he chooses not to step up, I will rush in and save the day because I wont let the children down.

There's a long DV history to this, so I am trying not to be resentful or a bitch because of that. I want what is best for the kids, which is exactly why I got a court order in the first place: stability and continuity.

I am just wondering whether IABU.

I can see both sides, I dont want to hurt his sister, but I want to stand up for myself as well.

(That was not short. Apologies.)

Incidentally what do you think would happen if you weren't available to run and pick up when he changes his plans and wants to dump the children during his time with them?

How do the children feel about being dumped by shit Dad when he decides he doesn't want to spend time with them any more?

Perhaps you should go back to the solicitor and see if there is anything that can be done about restricting his time with them. The constant being let down by him won't be doing their morale any good at all and access is supposed to be for their benefit, not his.

He sounds a complete knob OP.

YANBU. You are not depriving the children of anything. They will have just as much fun - probably more - attending the other wedding with you and your DP. Given the DV history, the abuse you're currently getting, the emotional blackmail and the access agreement and violations, I also think you need to stand your ground.

Plus, I would not and have not ever let my children attend an event without me where everyone else gets completely drunk. DH is from a family that parties hard, shall we say, all the other kids - no matter how young once walking - were left unattended. I went to a few of those when DC1 was a babe in arms. We both hated it. After nearly 20 years of putting my kids' welfare first, DH's family honestly think I hate parties. In actual fact, I love parties, I just don't relax if the kids need to be supervised.

I usually go along for a few hours, then leave before it gets rowdy. Given the behaviour I've seen at these parties since (including certain people trying to get my 14 year old drunk on spirits), I still don't let them stay without me.

Since staying for a few hours is not an option and your ex is planning to keep your DC from Thursday to Sunday, but is likely to decide he can't be bothered at any time, I would not dance to his tune.

And please stop worrying about his sister's feelings. If she cared about yours she would have contacted you directly, sent all of you (incl DP) an invite and asked you if your DC could be flower girls months ago.

@Ellie56 this is the thing- he knows I know he is unreliable, so I never go too far. He can abandon everything and I will run in and save everything. Simply because there is no-one else. I dont want a drunk MIL or anyone else. He knows this. Then I run the gauntlet of saying 'well it was on your time!' But I knew. Its a shitty situation.

There are a litany of problems with going back to solicitors: proof, pattern of behaviour and even then I'd be lucky to win. That's cynicism through experience.

Just for the record- he is knob. A knob with bell(ends)s on.

@CharlieParley you have it there. I cant relax without knowing my kids are ok. I know what this wedding will be (for ex). The pre evening drinks. The drinking throughout the day. The drinking through the night. The champagne breakfast. Liquid lunch. Barbecue/dinner with drinks. Morning after cure.

My kids,

Im not going to worry about his sister's feelings anymore. I sent her a very nice but honest message telling her that changing access had been up to her brother but he hadnt bothered. Thats when she said I was inhumane.

Thanks ladies-genuinely.

I really would stick to the access arrangements. If you let them go, I guarantee you will get a call asking you to come and get them when he realises he actually has to mind them instead of getting pissed on the day.

Agree with pps - if the sister really cared, she'd have contacted you months ago. They seem like a drama-llama family.

I know you hate to do this, I get it, he is probably awful. Can you get them to do it. or it will always be held against you. Be the bigger person. It's the aunt and godmother, and they will hear about this for sure - and it will look strange. Probably everyone there knows how beastly this man is, people aren't stupid. If the alcohol worries you, make sure a grandparent will be there to keep a watchful eye. One day he may give an inch over this that you may need. Soften...

@BananasAreTheSourceOfEvil YADNBU. Your ex has treated you appallingly and continues to treat the children appallingly. That kind of behaviour should not be rewarded.

*Mountainsoutofmolehills "Can you get them to do it. or it will always be held against you." Not all chidlren want to be bridesmaids or flower girls. Hopefully when the girls hear about it they will be told by their mum that their dad did not bother to arrange this in time at all, and so the lack of it happening is down to the dad, not the mum.

"Be the bigger person." The OP is already the bigger person. I am not sure men who have used any kind of domestic abuse against their wives should even have 'access' to their kids.

Since contact is for the benefit of the kids not the adults I would imagine being around a lot of drunk adults would not be much fun, even if one were wearing a nice dress!

Maybe buy the girls a new dress each (different) and of their own choice, better than being dressed in matching dresses at a wedding, just IMHO.

"One day he may give an inch over this that you may need." OP is that likely? (My guess is that it is not and I have not even met him!)

It might just be because women are perceived as being so soft that some of us get treated like shit...

(I have not been treated like shit but I think I am just lucky. OP do what is right for your family and you.)

@mountainsoutofmolehills I’d love to say they’d see him for what he is and stand behind me- they won’t. This is normal for them.

This will always be held against me. In the same way as ‘family do not rat upon family’ was when I reported their son for DV. He only hit me once that (!!) time, he went on to nearly kill me by sitting on my chest when I was ten weeks pregnant with our third child and strangling me until I lost consciousness. I remember fighting for my breath and losing consciousness. My last thought was that I’d never get to meet my baby. I woke up freezing cold and alone because the sod thought he had killed me. I Had bruises, finger marks around my neck. I wore a scarf all June until the bruises had gone.

I was told by his family that I shouldn’t have pushed him. He worked long hours and I was demanding (expecting third child under three), I shouldn’t wear the clothes I did, I antagonised.

I have never stood down since. I was beaten to a pulp by that bastard. The worst part is that I have never been vindicated by a court. There is nothing I can say. Nothing I can prove. I study law so I can help women like me.

I have to go any have a cry now, but Thankyou @italiangreyhound for your kind words.❤️

Based on your ex husband's family's attitude to his abuse of you I'd say that the kids should spend as little time with him or them as possible.

I'm sorry if remembering all this makes you want to cry. I don't blame you at all.

I have a son (he is 7) and a daughter. I want them to grow up to respect all people. I wonder if schools are educating children to know that this kind of abuse is wrong. We need to be teaching our children how to treat each other with respect. I wonder if this kind of thing is included in schools education?

The cycles of male violence in relationships need to be stopped. I think 7 is not too young to know that we all need to treat each other with respect!

I genuinely think we teach our children with ourselves as role models. If we see functional, happy relationships then that’s what kids aspire to, whether consciously or not.

To me, the most important point is the children's safety. Yes, it would be lovely if they were flower girls (for a caring father and family I would arrange that to happen) but not at the cost of being in a probably unsafe environment, not just for a few hours, but for a couple of days. And then there is the drink driving possibly. As a mother I could not contemplate putting my DC in this position. Surely, if your girls bring up not being flower girls in the future, they will understand and love you for caring about their safety, both physical and mental.

YANBU

It'd be over my dead body that I'd let ex have them that weekend. Aside from anything else, letting them spend the weekend in the hands of violent, drunken people isn't in the slightest best interests of the children.

Ex SIL clearly doesn't really want them to be flowergirls, or she would've asked you directly months and months ago if this would be possible. She didn't, so too bad, so sad (for her).

If anyone ever tries to pull the "mum wouldn't let you be flowergirls" crap on you or them, point blank tell them that nobody even bothered to ask you if it was possible, and that they already had plans to attend another wedding on that day as it was their access time with you/mum.

No. Don't let him take them. It is not ok that he's done this to you.
The kids don't know, they will enjoy the other wedding just as much, probably more if they have people there to actually look after them!

Op, the children shouldn’t go to their aunts wedding but besides that how is she explaining them being flower girls and them not knowing they are, and how she’s gone about buying clothes for them?

Also are they going to the other wedding with you?

Three day piss up, potential drunk driving after, massive inconvenience to you, contact bullying and emotional blackmail. Not a chance would my children be going to that wedding.

YANBU
He text to say he’s picking them up Thursday eve? What happens about school on the Friday? Who’s contacting school to say they won’t be there? Has he lodged the required forms with school to take them out for the day? Or is that expected to fall to you when you haven’t been asked and it’s falling on a day that isn’t his court ordered access?
The wedding falls on your access day. Is he offering to swap access days with you to make up for it? Is he even acknowledging that it’s not his weekend and apologising and accommodating and negotiating or is he just “demanding”? We all know the answer and it’s not ok and it’s not acceptable. It’s your access day. They haven’t approached you with enough notice or decency or respect. He doesn’t just get what he demands anymore. It’s a harsh lesson for him but the reply goes “if you’d told me about the wedding months ago and asked to please swap weekends then we could have made a plan. Sadly you have given me last minute notice. The girls have school on the Friday, it is my court ordered access weekend, we already have non changeable plans/hotel bookings. Next time please give me more notice of you wish to swap weekends but sadly, on this occasion the answer is no. However, please note that I am happy to try and accommodate your wishes in the future, with plenty of notice but am under absolutely no obligation to do so. Best wishes to your sister for her wedding day” End of.

No way would I be letting them go. I'm just sorry you doubt your judgement, and that so many posters are trying to guilt trip you. Without a shadow of a doubt, the right choice is to continue with the plans you already have. Screw the ex and his awful family.

He can't take them out of school. There is a court order that defines it as OP's contact time. I think you've given this issue more than enough headspace. The court order is there because things cannot be resolved in any other way with this selfish abusive cunt. I would seek a variation to the court order in your shoes. I would keep a detailed record of his failure to stick to the ordered contact for 6 months, with all of the attendant abuse documented, then I would seek a permanent reduction in his contract. Some of the 'advice' on this thread is moronic.

I totally think you’ve made the right choice against all the blackmail. Dh is foreign - French. I know all about the weddings, which go on til 5am and meeting for lunch for more revelling the next day. Lots of drink driving involved. These weddings are not places for children, especially where there will be no proper adult supervision.

The people saying you should send your children to this would most likely be comparing it to a British wedding, which lasts far less time - only to midnight - and where far less alcohol is consumed even by the heavy drinkers. In my experience, alcohol is usually on tap and there is no concept of the guests paying for their drinks. Saying it’s abroad with all of the all day drinking, next day drinking was highly relevant and something you would have done well to explain earlier.

Now that you’ve made the decision, I think you need to take some time to talk to the girls about it. Your ex is very likely going to tell them and how horrible you are. At 9 and 10, your two elder girls are old enough to understand the lack of supervision if you decide to tell explain this to them. A pp mentioned upthread about dumping them in a hotel room unsupervised. Your dds may have already been left in this situation by him tbh.

You had already committed to the other wedding. The flower girl thing sounds last minute made up. He's completely unreliable. I've been you, bending over backwards for an abusive ex. He never appreciated it, as yours doesn't, messing about with his dd's and your time and feelings.
Go to your wedding and please don't feel guilty.

I don't usually read the whole thread and am sometimes guilty of forming an opinion based on the first post. But yours I did read.

OP you are wonderful, to get yourself out of such a relationship, make a new life and continue to do the best for your girls. I can see his family now, I know and have experience of exactly this kind of family.

As you say, they won't think any better of you whatever your decision so you need to do what is right for yourself and your children, and on this occasion it is refusing to let them attend the wedding with your ex.

TBH, I don't even think he cares whether they are there or not, it's all point scoring and as you say photo props.

Go to the other wedding with your DP and children.

He called you a cunt? That would be an instant No from me, non-negotiable. I wouldn't even consider giving in after that point.

Their mother learning to stand up to an abusive bully will be more important to your daughters down the track than wearing a pretty dress at a wedding, if it they don't know it for years.

OP the only joy of being a flower girl is buying a pretty dress and the aisle bit on the day. If they’ve just bought dresses there’s every chance they won’t even fit on the day! Weddings aren’t great fun for kids usually, it’s boring watching all the grownups get drunk.

You are completely doing the right thing and I’m a bit shocked at some of the responses. I would sit down with girls though and explain what has happened as next time they’re with their Dad they’ll get his side of it and how you ruined everything.

Hope you’re BILs wedding is lovely and you all have a great time.