Not allowing my daughters to attend a wedding

[BananasAreTheSourceOfEvil]

This might be long but I will try to keep it as short as I can.

My ex's sister is getting married in June. I am also supposed to attend a wedding where my DP is the best man on the same day.

This day is one that falls on a day of my access.

Ex and I have a long history with going to court for access. Ex is egocentric and rather than thinking about what is best for the children's stability always puts his own wants and needs before theirs in terms of access (got drunk/hungover a lot and didnt turn up- cue me getting a court order, changes shifts to suit his lifestyle and expects me to change both the children's life and mine to suit his).

His last shift change was a year ago and the court order no longer suited him and he turns up to avail of access as and when he wants. If theres a racing festival on, or a friend's birthday or the opening of an envelope, he will say he cant collect the kids at the allotted time.

I have acted over the past three years under legal advice because he is such a tool, that if he is not there to collect the children (notwithstanding traffic delays, legitimate reasons) that I do not have to allow him to take them.

He has been told by a judge to stop complaining and that he works around the children: the children dont work around him. He has ignored this.

I am truly sick of being treated like a doormat. Last week, he let me know with 1.5hrs before he was supposed to collect the children from school that he wouldnt be there and I must go. He has a conviction from ignoring a court order to stop harassing me.

I stick to my court order as if I give him an inch he takes a mile. Then some more.

He and his sister arranged our daughters to be flower girls at her wedding. She has bought them dresses. No one ever asked me or even bothered to tell me the date. As I knew this was my day with the kids, I went ahead and made my own plans to go to my BIL's wedding.

I only found out the date of his sister's wedding because I know someone in the hotel it's happening in. The assumption has been all along that I would just give in and say yes.

Ive had everything from him from 'youre a cow/bitch/cunt/insert other word here' to 'thats her godmother/what do you think the girls would choose' to his sister saying that she thinks my approach to his access is 'inhumane' and accusing me of not turning up to court to remedy access (there was no court date, apparently he went to get application papers that I do not need to be there for and had no knowledge of).

She has said how devasatated she is, and why would I prioritise this wedding over hers: a) I didnt know when it was; b) no one told me of these plans.

I have sent Ex future access proposals, have always been reasonable (I may not like the bugger, but the kids love him and I have always facillitated as much of equal weekend access as I can because of this.) but he hasnt moved his backside to change the access order he claims is soooooo unfair to him. Hes had fifteen months to do this, and all I get is a weekly threat to 'take me back to court'.

He can do it! I even told him which form to get, how to fill it out and explained it to him.

I am just sick to my back teeth of being treated like a doormat. He slots the children in around his life, I get treated like a babysitter and my life and anything I want to do is ignored. Im still having this wanker control my life nearly six years after splitting up, because he knows that anytime he chooses not to step up, I will rush in and save the day because I wont let the children down.

There's a long DV history to this, so I am trying not to be resentful or a bitch because of that. I want what is best for the kids, which is exactly why I got a court order in the first place: stability and continuity.

I am just wondering whether IABU.

I can see both sides, I dont want to hurt his sister, but I want to stand up for myself as well.

(That was not short. Apologies.)

What a nightmare dilemma OP!

I really don't know what to suggest. How is your relationship with the extended family? Could you ring the sister and explain your concerns, namely the drinking and the driving after alcohol? See if she offers any reassurances. If the weddings were close the obvious answer would be to collect them or ask someone to collect them in the evening of the wedding. Is there any chance of this?

If you are genuinely worried for their safety then don't send them. If you are just angry about the way it's been managed then I think send them but just as a complete one off, do it for them and for the sister ( who will no doubt have been fed a very different story and probably been told by her brother that you've known for months.)

@CalF123 I'm afraid you're wrong. They will be interested as it's consistent with his previous behaviour, so they will take it into account.

If OP had decided to go to the DP's brother wedding AFTER her DDs had been chosen to be flowers girls, then you'd have a point of her putting her interests above those of her DDs, but that isn't what happened.

Another option for the ex would of course be a Specific Issue Order, under which the court could compel the OP to allow the DC to attend. Contempt of court criminal proceedings would then be brought for refusal to comply.

@CalF123

You're talking utter bollocks.

Hear hear! Utter repetitive bollocks

OP I think you're making the right decision - it would be very rude to pull out of BIL's wedding only a few weeks beforehand because of these rude and irresponsible people. You don't deserve to be treated this way, and I wouldn't want my children with people who I couldn't trust to look after them, drunk or not.

I hope if you pull this stunt ever to have them on his days for any of your family events because while hes a twat you might want them to attend something on his day.

Do you really think that this man, whether or not the OP allows the girls to attend the wedding, would ever agree to a change in access day because the OP had something special she wanted the girls to go to?

OP - I think you are going to have to suck it up and say yes. I think the fallout from not letting them go would be huge and detrimental to the girls. Your ex will twist your refusal into all sorts of bad for you. Is it worth it? Prepare yourself for a disrupted weekend, as I'm sure it won't go as he says it will, and he'll not pick the girls up when he says, and not bring them back at the allotted time.

I also think longterm you need to stop engaging. If he's going to be late, just say "okay" and not let him see how inconvenienced you are. It is part of his control, enjoying seeing that you are annoyed etc. You know he is going to try and control you through the access as much as he can, and part of the attraction for him is for you to react. Just be as cool as you can in all dealings. Accept he is a controlling useless twat, and just try and let it wash over you. Or at least show to him that's what you're doing.

You must stop explaining to him how to fill in forms and sending him future access proposals!!! You're playing right into his hands by doing that! If he talks about it, let him do it! If he says he's going to take him to court, then just say "okay".

You know who and what he is, so why get into it with him? He wants to control you, and you're currently allowing him to. I know t's easy enough to write this, I'm not the one in the situation, but if you're truly fed up and have had enough then you need to try a different approach.

@Fruitcorner123 its not good with the extended family because since leaving the idiot I found the balls to tell them what I really think of their precious son.

MIL told me I was a selfish, sad, miserable bitch and I deserved everything her son did.

I told her she should have raised her son properly.

There's no love lost. However, I dont have a problem with his sister. She has never been horrible (to my face) and shes sweet. Therein lies my dilemma.

.I would say to his sister, "Look, if you'd told me about this when you first knew the date, I would have agreed to it. I could have taken them to the wedding and picked them up in the evening, but now I've made other arrangements. You know how much trouble X is. He never mentioned this until last week. You know how much X drinks and he won't be responsible for the girls. They're too young to be responsible for themselves when everyone's drinking. Because of all that I'm afraid they won't be there."

As a child that has been in the middle of these situations take them where you want them. Their Father may manipulate the situation and tell them they missed out because of you but when they are older they will understand that you did what was in their best interest. I am now 26 and have been completely estranged from my dad for 8 years because his true colours soon showed themselves!

The girls will enjoy the day and you will enjoy the day knowing your girls are safe and you won’t have a phone call demanding you to come and collect them!

That is really tough. I'd lean towards sticking to your plans. Clearly laying out in writing why (eg many past occasions where flexibility is not offered, plans cancelled, your needs not accommodated) might be helpful, but might not - might just make it seem like you want to engage.
Maybe before telling them this decision, check to see the dresses, and check on whether there is any childcare plan in place, who will be with the girls after ~10pm when they should be in bed, esp the youngest, but the adults are still drinking for hours; do the girls know this person, etc? I'm with above posters doubting there is even a flower girl plan, if they don't know about it.

Cross post with your update.

You have said that if you had known months in advance you would send them. My question is wouldn't they be equally at risk from the drunkenness? I ask th because you may need to reflect on whether this is really the reason

I am trying to imagine whether I would send my children and the answer is probably no because of the DV and the drinking . If I did I would want to know minute by minute what the girls would be doing, where they would be sleeping and who is looking after them.

Firstly if they are not flower girls it's just a wedding so I would be asking to see the dresses and questioning why the girls don't know. If i felt convinced AND they could reassure me about the childcare then I suppose there would be a case for letting them go for one night.

As a child though seeing their dad and grandparents absolutely hammered and no-one to safely tuck them into bed would be quite upsetting.

So on balance given what you have said I would NOT send them

YANBU surely his sisters wedding wasnt arranged only just last week... why on earth were you not given more notice?
Youve made commitments to be at someone elses wedding and thats what you should honour with your girls. Hes not even come to you with a proper plan and seemingly just expects you to do whatever he asks you to re pick ups and drop offs on the day.... thats just ridiculous. There was no reason why, if this was so important to him and his sister, that he could not have actually sorted this out in plenty of time with you and made an actual plan.

You are well within your rights to keep to the court order and take your girls to the other wedding. Your ex is being an absolute douche. He will try and act like you are depriving the girls of something when in fact it is him who has by not taking the time and effort to actually civilly sort it all out in enough time with you like a proper adult would.

What HollowTalk said.

Also, it's not a choice, as some people have said, between a family wedding and the wedding of a stranger. Your DP is their stepdad, so the wedding you are going to is their family too. Sod bastard ex, go to your side's wedding, and make sure the kids have a ball. Also, tell them about the other wedding too, because you can absolutely bet that ex will try to make them sad they missed it.

@Calf123 I dont live in the UK. We already have in place an access order that makes exceptions for holidays and special occasions to be mutually agreed. Given the Idiot's shift patterns he gets a roughly 50/50 share of holidays and special occasions are listed on the order. Ironically at holiday times, he gets most of it his own way because Im not stopping the children seeing him unless we have something special booked. He wont ever consider taking Boxing Day with the kids, even though I offer, as thats the day all his family head to the pub and bet on racing all day. Three generations of them. However he wants Christmas Eve and Day because he has 'plans' for Boxing Day. This is the mindset I am dealing with.

@SevenStones Ive had no other plans proposed for the wedding. Just to hand them over Thursday night and probably expect a call. This I also find totally unreasonable. Again- I dont think this is a situation where anybody 'wins'. Its sad.

I have snapped as far as telling him what to do. I keep getting told 'you dont meet me halfway': I sent you an access proposal about 7 months ago, told you the form to fill in and how to file it. Thats not halfways, thats wiping your arse! Ive refused to. Now his feelings are hurt because I dont ask 'how high?' every time he says 'jump'.

I wouldn’t send the kids. Like fuck would I let an ex walk all over me constantly and then bend over backwards on a date I already had plans on! Girls stay with you for the day. It’s your time. Tell him to get fucked the cheeky twat.

@Fruitcorner123 if I had known in advance I would have made sure there was a babysitter. Lets just say that once everyone gets out of the church and to the hotel- its not a place for kids anymore.

Ironically, when he told me the kids were to be flower girls- he invited me to the wedding!! I can only guess which role I'd have!!

Am I the only person reading "oh you're depriving them , they'll love being flower girls" and going WTF?!

Having ANY role in a wedding other than that of bride/groom is a massive boring ball ache. Being the oldest grandchild in my family meant I got roped into loads of flower girl/bridesmaid shit as a child. Fuck me it was dull. Pretty sure I ruined dozens of wedding photos with my juvenile faces.

OP its your access date so tell him to fuck off.

Have they chuff had Flower Girl dresses bought for them! Who the hell buys three girls they haven't seen for ages dresses without knowing their sizes? Ditto shoes?

I agree with font

Without a doubt the wedding of an aunt and godmother where have been asked to be flower girls far out strips the wedding of your DPs family to which they have no blood tie nor nor will they have many people who know them. Unless they are on intimate terms with your DPs extended family.
Your decision to refuse their aunts wishes is all to do with your anger at him. As you said, if you were amicable this wouldn't be a problem, therefore it's your relationship with him preventing your children from attending. That's just wrong.
You know it's 'the right wedding' for them. Let them go.

Don't send them. I very much doubt they are supposed to be flower girls. I think if you agree to send them (and cancel the arrangement for them to attend the wedding with you and your DP) your XP will simply not turn up to collect them and text you hours later to say there has been a change of plan which is somehow your fault. He's an abusive, manipulative prick and this is all about spoiling your plans and messing you about.
You got given less than two weeks' notice, they are supposed to have had dresses bought for them by people who haven't seen them in months - and you already have plans. Keep them with you and let him go fuck himself. To kids of that age, one wedding is just as much fun as another.

I'm amazed at all the posters concerned that the girls will lose out on the chance to be flower girls. Really?

Funny how their roles as flower girls were only mentioned when the OP said, "er, what? My weekend? We've already RSVPed to a wedding on my side of the family that day!"

It's almost like he and ex-SIL are frantically casting around for something to make her wedding take precedence...

If they were genuinely going to be flower girls, don't you think it would have been mentioned before now? Dress shopping, rehearsals, shoes?

This isn’t about whether they should be flower girls anymore. I think it’s a safeguarding issue and he doesn’t sound responsible enough to stay sober for any amount of time.

You don’t know anyone who is going who would want responsibility for 3 young children at a drunken wedding so I think you can decline on just that matter.

Where will they sleep from Thursday to Sunday?
Will he be sober enough to feed and water them?

Sounds doubtful so I would take them with you.

I agree with SGB - have you actually heard from ex SIL that your children are flower girls or just from Ex? If your DD's don't know then I would keep them with you for your original plans for weekend.

I am even more adamant then that they should stay with you. Poor things.

@Aridane I cant disagree with you or @font. This is to do with my feelings towards Ex. I dont think there's a 'right' wedding to be attended. Its like a family game of top trumps.

Im simply trying to find the line between being unreasonable and being walked all over.

@ReanimatedSGB last year we attended a wedding (another BIL! but DP was not a groomsman) and because my Ex decided to change his plans the morning after, we had to rush home to get the kids, despite it being 'his' time. No breakfast, just run and drive two hours to make sure we were back home.

Im sick of this. I sought a court order (all of them!) for stability FOR the children. Instead its anything but. Im sick of jumping through hoops.

It might be selfish, but for once I would love to go to something, let my hair down, dance, have a few drinks, laugh with my friends and not be bloody worried that I have to be on red alert to drop everything and run because The Idiot has changed his mind.