To tell new parents not to make a rod for their backs

[PenelopeChipShop]

I’ve thought about how to phrase this but I really want to post it. I just feel like i’ve made so many mistakes and I don’t want others to go through the same.

My DC are 5 (nearly 6) and 2 and neither are good sleepers. I didn’t sleep train either of them and was quite laid back/ attachment parent-ish about their sleep, believing all the relaxed people (lots of them on the munsnet sleep boards!) who said that children will sleep through when they’re ready, you won’t regret the cuddles, etc. I was confident in my choice and while I didn’t judge those who did sleep training, I thought it wasn’t for us.

Well almost 6 years of sleep deprivation have taken my youth, sanity, skin quality, patience and all my confidence in what I thought was the right path. It also isn’t an exaggeration to say that conflict over how to handle sleep issues played a huge part in ending my marriage.

I am now a LP to two children who still don’t sleep, ex H doesn’t have them overnight (though he has said he will ‘in future’ - I think this means when the little one is weaned off boob, which I do understand tbf) and every morning I wake up sandwiches between them, utterly exhausted, and angry because it takes all fucking evening to get them to bed. I have no energy or time for myself, all because I thought Dr Sears was right about traumatising children who are left to cry.

Well guess what, he is a man who has never actually breastfed every fucking night for hundreds of nights on end. So he can stuff his theories up his arse.

AIBU to tell new parents to get their kids used to self setting and to night wean them earlyish (6-12 months) so they don’t end up like me, ie a husk of their former selves.

I used pretty traditional methods to get my babies to settle- I saw it as helpful to them, and vital to my health and sanity. It was a long time ago, but I'm repeating the process now with our new puppy, with excellent results

Penelope, I'm so sorry you've been through all this- please don't blame yourself. Your ex-H sounds like a bit of a dick, to be honest.

I haven't rtft but I disagree with the op. Making a rod for your own back is a horrible phrase.

Sleep deprivation is awful, but kids do nearly always sleep through when they are ready. Mine both did at around 18 months to 2 years. I remember how knackered I was though! Co-sleeping was the answer for us to get more sleep without resorting to a style of parenting that I wasn't comfortable with and was worried would harm my dc.

I think that not sleeping through at 6 is probably an extreme case, and quite unusual. There's no evidence that early sleep training would have helped.

While I'm quite opposed to leaving infants to cry, I am keen on having firm rules around bedtime and behaviour at for older kids. My eldest is 6 and is able to get up for the loo and settle herself back to sleep without waking others. Perhaps set some rules for your dc for if they wake (e.g. try to get back to sleep quietly unless there is a real problem) rather then focusing on them sleeping through?

There are as many 'right' methods as there are wrong ones and in the years I have spoken to people about it, I have never come across any one method that was a guarantee of good sleep for everyone.

One thing that is true is that there is no surer way to make someone who is sleep-deprived and struggling feel worse than by telling them it's their own fault and if they had just done 'x,y,z' that you did they would be getting 8 uninterrupted hours by now.

A lot of parenting is about second-guessing yourself and worrying that you are doing things wrong, from feeding and sleeping to discipline and education and when someone is struggling with their kids, for whatever reason, it's heartless to blame them for their problems (especially things like sleep where NOBODY knows what makes a good sleeper) and make a difficult situation even worse by adding guilt and regret.

OP - it sounds as though you are internalising that blame here, but give yourself a break. You have clearly done your best and there is NO way of knowing whether your kids would have been good sleepers whatever you did, so focus on making things easier for yourself in whatever way you can and be as kind to yourself as I'm sure you would to anyone else who found themselves in your position. If all else fails, try and savour the snuggles as something to remember when he's older and you're trying to drag him out of bed on a daily basis!

Yabu. My husband says this and then had opted out of all night wakings since day one. Ds is almost 18 months. It makes me want to punch DH in the face. I've made various stabs at sleep training since about ten months. Did CC to get him to stay in the cot a few weeks ago. DS has two settings: sleep like the dead for 12 hours/up all night. Tonight is the latter. The only person who would be getting less sleep without the "rod" (of cosleeping) is me. So to DH and all the people who give "helpful"advice like 'you're making a rod for your own back', kindly fuck off. It's affected my marriage because my husband is shit, not the baby.

bertiebotts I like that list

Never heard a rod for your back. What's that?

Op could your ex have the eldest at least. There must be a fairer way. He seems to have got pissed off with no sleep and fucked off.

Don't lose hope. It won't be long before he can have them overnight. Make sure this happens. Set a deadline.

OP,

Have you looked into hiring a sleep consultant now?

It’s not too late for you.

I hope you get some sleep soon

I think Gina Ford was the worst book ever, how anyone could follow that routine is beyond me. I read another ladies book, can't remember her name but it was the simplest routine so easy to follow

I really feel for you OP, sleep deprivation is horrible and it bleeds into every other part of your life.

However I don’t think this is so much about sleep, as much as it sounds like you’ve always done most of the parenting of two children even before your ex left. Which is not at all fair on you.

I’m firmly convinced that sleepers are born not made. All of mine were bf, co-slept until they chose not to etc and still, one was an excellent sleeper, one middling and one awful. Awful as in, not sleeping unless touching me at any time of day.
Have to say though, I found my rod most useful with the awful one, for the days after particularly bad nights.

I think sausagedogs has hit the nail on the head. This is about sleep, but it’s also about the end of my marriage, and as she very rightly points out, the fact that I was on my own in practice for a long time before he actually left. Only now am I feeling that i’m Cracking and it’s taken a lot.

The oldest actually did sleep through for a while - while I was pregnant I think - but he started coming in bed with me again the day DH left (a year ago) and has ever since. At first I allowed it as I felt guilty about all that he was going through. But now it’s like he’s completely regressed when he was capable of falling asleep and staying asleep. I’m just struggling at the moment. DH has moved on with his girlfriend and I guess it’s dawnjnf on me that my youth is draining away making these choices, that keep me tied to the kids in a way he isn’t, and stop me ever moving on to find a new partner!

Sorry this is actually so many issues mixed up. I probably am BU to assume that my choices have directly lead to my exact current situation. But I still wouldn’t wish it on anyone else!

As for last night, the exhaustion won again and the little one got bf. I’m so weak.

I honestly think it’s just th child and not the things you have done.
I co slept with both of mine. Eldest still co sleeps at 6 and 3yo doesn’t and couldn’t care less about sleeping alone, even though she co slept for the first 3 years of her life.
I did used to blame myself for my oldest’s insecurities, until I realised it was just the way he is!

Gosh, I'd say the opposite for us. We struggled with sleep training but DC would never sleep on their own. Life (and sleep) improved drastically when we started letting them co-sleep. They've recently moved back into their own room (their own decision) and now I'm the one not sleeping cause I miss the cuddles!

YABU. I'm sorry it's not gone how you'd hoped but one persons experience shouldn't put off those who want to try it their way.

Your kids are just bad sleepers.

Of course leaving kids to cry traumatises them.

I managed to raise 3 children to adulthood, but I have no idea what sleep training is, never heard of it! but then mine were terrible sleepers and with the 2nd I decided to just let him sleep in our bed, at least that way we managed some sleep! It was very hard though, thank God they are now grown up

I have two kids. The first was a dream sleeper who naturally fell in to an easy sleep pattern. The second was a total nightmare. With the second for our own sanity with sleep trained with military precision. It was hard and you have to stick to it but it worked. For me it had to change when ds was 5 montgscand wouldn't sleep for more than an hour and at that had to be attached to me to sleep. I had a car accident because I was so tired. It wasn’t serious but gave me a real fright. Sleep deprivation is dangerous.

I’m sorry but I don’t beleive that you are just ‘stuck’ with a non sleeper. Kids can learn to self soothe and you DO NOT have to be a martyr to your kids and suffer for years as the op has. No one will give you a medal for sleep deprivation. So op is not being unreasonable. She is rightly pointing out that living with two non sleepers Amis a bloomin’ nightmare!

I think we are moving into a dangerous area where again women are starting to judge each other very harshly for the choices they make. It’s very easy to say sleep training is cruel or unnecessary if you have an easy baby that doesn’t need it. Plus some people might be happy to to lead a child led schedule. Others are not.

Please let’s not make sleep into the new breastfeeding/labour debate. As with everything do what’s right for you.

Never sleep trained, my children slept with me from birth till 5. Never had any problem with broken sleep, waking up late. I would be up around 6 so kids even now aged 18, 16 and 15 they wake up at 6 but have later bedtimes

Kids are all different. Ours have never been sleep trained, if they come down the stairs after bed wanting something they get a smile and cuddle. Bed shared until they wanted their own beds, and now at nearly 8 and 6 are still welcome in with us if they want to. 6 month old full time bed shares still.

Both brilliant sleepers. The oldest wakes fairly early, but that's ok. They go to bed well after lots of reading, and sleep all night bar the odd accident.

My mother, husband and I are all terrible sleepers. My mum became so ill that she was referred to a sleep clinic by the NHS.
The doctor running it was evangelical about good quality sleep. He said the best thing a parent could do is to teach their children to fall asleep easily on their own. He believed the co sleeping successes were down to the fact that those children would have been easy sleepers anyway.

As a family of insomniacs we trained our kids to sleep. They can now sleep in unfamiliar beds, in tents, dark rooms, light rooms, sleepovers and on planes. Given how exhausted the rest of us are most of the time I think we did the right thing. They don't remember the sleep training and they are manifestly untraumatised..
The good news is OP that it's not too late. Take control of their sleeping, be firm and do it.

If it consolation I was pretty strict and on a routine with sleep and mine still didn’t sleep at times , they would for a while and then change it all up again , I know i’ll Get jumped on and WHO recommendations shoved under my nose but I think if I was still breastfeeding after a year - 18 months it would have broke me . It’s just not necessary if you are suffering as a mother .

I sympathise op, but yabu I'm afraid. Yours does sound like a particularly extreme case and although most will struggle at some point with getting their babies to sleep, I would think it's very rare and unusual to still be struggling when they're six - even if they have coslept and done a more attachment style of parenting.

I wouldn't advise new parents not to make a rod for their own back, I would however still strongly advocate taking their lead from their baby. If you watch most babies closely enough they will tell you when they're ready to do certain things. Some get there sooner than others, and with more or less intervention, of course. But I've heard this 'rod for your own back' shit far too often. My 17mo and 7yo are both now great sleepers and incredibly confident individuals too. All I did was follow their cues.

Well guess what, he is a man who has never actually breastfed every fucking night for hundreds of nights on end. So he can stuff his theories up his arse.

Sorry for your troubles OP but I'm fucking guffawing at this!

The only advice to new mothers, I can suggest is to make normal noise and light around your child when they are sleeping, from when they come home from hospital. You are setting them up for sleep problems if they can only sleep in a quiet, dark room.

I think a lot of it depends on the child though.

We tried sleep training a bit but frankly hated it and it didn’t work anyway.
We co slept and fed her to sleep. She would also wake up ever 1-2 hours.

Then we put her in her own bed and own room and she slept through from then on.
If she’d kicked up a fuss she’d been back in our bed and on the boob just for an easy life!

My twins were awful sleepers - I never sleep trained, I’m not comfortable with it. Around 15 months they really did just start sleeping better on their own. But I’ve never bed shared, and I was unable to bf so I pumped and supplemented until 7 months. They really are all different.