To tell new parents not to make a rod for their backs

[PenelopeChipShop]

I’ve thought about how to phrase this but I really want to post it. I just feel like i’ve made so many mistakes and I don’t want others to go through the same.

My DC are 5 (nearly 6) and 2 and neither are good sleepers. I didn’t sleep train either of them and was quite laid back/ attachment parent-ish about their sleep, believing all the relaxed people (lots of them on the munsnet sleep boards!) who said that children will sleep through when they’re ready, you won’t regret the cuddles, etc. I was confident in my choice and while I didn’t judge those who did sleep training, I thought it wasn’t for us.

Well almost 6 years of sleep deprivation have taken my youth, sanity, skin quality, patience and all my confidence in what I thought was the right path. It also isn’t an exaggeration to say that conflict over how to handle sleep issues played a huge part in ending my marriage.

I am now a LP to two children who still don’t sleep, ex H doesn’t have them overnight (though he has said he will ‘in future’ - I think this means when the little one is weaned off boob, which I do understand tbf) and every morning I wake up sandwiches between them, utterly exhausted, and angry because it takes all fucking evening to get them to bed. I have no energy or time for myself, all because I thought Dr Sears was right about traumatising children who are left to cry.

Well guess what, he is a man who has never actually breastfed every fucking night for hundreds of nights on end. So he can stuff his theories up his arse.

AIBU to tell new parents to get their kids used to self setting and to night wean them earlyish (6-12 months) so they don’t end up like me, ie a husk of their former selves.

My twins (year and a half old) sleep in with us most nights. We put them to bed and sometimes they’ll sleep through till 5-6am in their own beds, sometimes it’s only till 1am then they’re in with us, sometimes they don’t go to their bed at all.

Yes it’s bloomin hard and I’m sick of being kicked about in bed. I’m sick of hanging off the edge of the bed and having to get up at 6am for work with very little sleep but it’ll stop soon enough. I like the cuddles at night too, if my OH is out for the night I have the kids in, I like to have the company and they sleep much better.

Yep it might last another few years but I’ve never met anyone who said their kids slept with them right through primary/high school and into adulthood so I’m good letting them share our bed for a while

Indeed, lloyd, each to their own.

However your comment about mums needing to have their own life implies that mums can’t have that if their children are not weaned and sleeping through the night.

YANBU.

Sleep deprivation is a killer. We used gentle, age appropriate sleep training methods from about 8 months. I now have a 2,4&6 year old who all sleep a solid 12 hours. It’s bliss.

But it must be harder to leave them with someone if there not sleeping through night, also I can't function without my sleep, I couldn't go out with friends if I knew I had to be up at 2am to feed a baby and then get up to go to work

YABU a bit, though I totally understand why you are feeling so frustrated.

I have one non-sleeper and one sleeper. Treated exactly the same (and no sleep training). Luckily my sleeper came second so I was able to understand it wasn't down to anything I had or hadn't done, just luck. DD didn't sleep more than 2 hours at a time until she was well over 1, DS otoh just car out knowing how to sleep & was sleeping through reliably by 3 months. Both bf on demand, DS only weaned just shy of 3.

It's luck.

I sleep trained both of mine. Ds1 (5) wakes up in the night and comes to me.

Ds2 (2) sleeps through but in a cot so he can't get out. If he wakes I leave him which isn't very often.

I'm knackered from ds1 coming to my bed. Even if you did sleep train there is no guarantee they will continue to not disturb you.

My DH was never daunted by getting up to ours in the middle of the night.

I adore sleep, it’s one of my favourite things.

The sleep deprivation didn’t last too long in the scheme of things.

There is some middle ground you know it's not just a choice between leave them to cry and breastfeed them all night

If you’d said it to me as a new parent I’d have told you where to stick your rod. I took the same approach as you and my little boy sleeps through 8-6 every night. So I don’t think I made a rod for myself.

I bf both mine till 13 months when they seemed to “go off” it. I expressed so they were fed an extra bottle in the evening. My first slept through from 5 months, my 2nd from 8 months. I never left them to cry. I carried my youngest about until she fell asleep, then put her in the cot. They have both had their own beds/cots, apart from when bf at night when they were small. As toddlers I lay next to their bed in the dark until they were quiet and nearly asleep/asleep. I have never ever had any sleep issues with either. After they were left in the evening, they’d be fine. I’d never consider sleep training. Not quite sure what it is actually but nighttime was for sleeping. I was there if they woke or cried, and when they were small, it could be tiring, but I never saw “sleeping through” as the Mecca of babycare.
However, am so so sorry to hear how difficult it is for you. Must be horrid when you’re alone. Just to say though, I think sometimes it’s about luck. I did just about everything that “you’re not meant to do” but it worked. I know people who did all the things I didn’t and had a hell of a time. I know people with a similar approach to mine and it went wrong. For your own sanity, try stopping the breastfeeding, take your children back to bed when they wake again and again and be thoroughly boring. Do hope it gets better.

I feel for you OP it must be terrible... BUT don't give advice out like that to new mums. We generally tend to lack in confidence quite a lot and quite often think we are doing the right thing until someone comes along with their experiences and makes us doubt ourselves. All children are different. And now ds is 6mo I am finding that following my instincts is the best way. I am co-sleeping and bf'ing and will continue to do so until it feels right to stop. My baby is a very happy and content little boy and slept last night from 8 until 6, only waking twice in the night for a feed. Some nights he may walk up more.

6 weeks ago he was waking every hour And I was beside myself. He wouldn't nap. We tried some gentle sleep training for naps and although it technically worked, the first few times he cried so much it turned my stomach even thinking about doing it again. We didn't leave him to cry, he just didn't want to sleep by himself. I won't be doing that again - only went against my instincts that time and tried it because of others unwanted advice.

@BertieBotts wow your list is absolutely perfect. That describes my DH to a T

@sdaisy26 your last sentence, all 2 words of it, is spot on.

Sorry really strongly disagree. I have 3 children my eldest co slept with us and breast fed until 16 months. Would not sleep / nap with out being breast fed. He went into his own room and after about 2 weeks of lots cuddles he finally slept on his own. He was never ever left to cry. He has slept really well ever since, never ever coming into our room even if he's ill. My other two slept better as babies, and play musical beds most nights. Currently lying with my 3 year old who has completely regressed her sleeping and now takes me about 40 mins to get to sleep only for her to wake back up again 2 hrs later if I'm lucky and the. It's s battle of wills every night until I give up and let her sleep in my bed

I have never left mine to cry and they sleep though, it did take nearly 3 years for one but I just think all kids are different. As are adults.
I still wake up in the night. And not just because of hubbys snoring. Sometimes I can't go back to sleep either.

My DC are grown up now, but I'm not aware that I did any deliberate formal sleep training - I just had expectations that once they were eating a reasonable amount of solid food they would be able to sleep through the night. With DS he was sleeping 7 hours through by 4 months and with DD it was nearer to 10 months. They both slept in a Moses basket then a cot in my room, then into their own room by a year old. It didn't cross my mind that they would become a permanent fixture in my bed or my room!

Sleep routines become really easy by the time they were a year old, pyjamas on, into sleeping bag, bottle and then bed with a musical mobile playing. I would listen to them grumble over the monitor but it never lasted more than 10 minutes.

I feel for the babies and the mothers who never get a good uninterrupted night of sleep. Sleep is wonderfully healing and refreshing, it shouldn't be such a struggle.

You need a CD player, some relaxing audio books and the CD version of 'The Rabbit Who Wanted To Fall Asleep'. It has completely changed bedtime for our little one. On a good night as soon as the rabbit CD goes on they are asleep in minutes. It has also put an end to night waking. I discovered this a couple of months ago and feel like a completely different person.

If you want to know the full routine that works for us, let me know.

Different approaches work for different families of course. However, the trouble with the "some babies are good sleepers, some aren't" viewpoint is that it's so... passive / helpless. My first was a horrendous sleeper, waking every 40-60 minutes around 7-10 months, needed rocking to sleep, standing up (I had back issues), screaming like he was traumatised. My husband had some serious health problems, I was coping with that and less than 60 minutes unbroken sleep night after night and the baby wouldn't co-sleep even if I'd wanted to. We sleep trained and it worked beautifully (and with very little by way of crying). So he went from being a "bad sleeper" to a good one in a couple of days. If I'd thought I couldn't change his sleep habits, had no influence and had years ahead of me of such severe broken sleep I would've have ended it, I couldn't have gone on much longer, I was on the brink of a terrible breakdown.

I have to believe while it's probably true some of its nature, nurture can surely help things along (and it sleep training doesn't automatically equal crying and abandoned baby).

Lloyd, I also have a 13 yo (and a 8 yo), both breasfed as babies, coslept with me or dh until they were 4. The first time I left them to go out they were newborns and their grandmother babysat with no problems. I also have (and had at that time) a job and a healthy relationship with dh. Sex is not mandatory to be had on the bed where your baby is sleeping

Grabby at what age did you start using that CD?

I haven’t read all the responses but anecdotally I can say that I have 3 friends who are still breastfeeding children aged 18 to 20 months and they all report being woken repeatedly in the night (one is woken pretty much every hour!) and their DC only settling with a feed.

I weaned my DS at 7 months and put him in his own room. Didn’t sleep train as such and certainly no harsh CIO, but he got used to it quite quickly. He is now 20 months and (touch wood) a pretty good sleeper. Yes, he cried at 3am last night and had to come in with us for the rest of the night but he sleeps through probably 5 nights out of 7. Several friends who also weaned before a year have babies who sleep similarly well.

@ethelfleda at about 5.5 years. Has a soothing effect and seems quite hypnotic. Wish I'd tried it before.

'being a mum can be enjoyable'

But only if your baby is in a different room yeah? Couldn't possibly enjoy their company between 7pm - 7am.

I was obsessed with the idea of sleep training when my first daughter was born. In the end I let her cry herself to sleep once, and it's the one choice that I really feel bad about regarding my parenting. I wish I'd been more chilled out.

At the moment it sounds like you're tearing yourself up because you didn't "sleep train" your children. But it could have been that it wouldn't have worked for your children. You never know.

Hope you get some peaceful nights soon. Don't be so hard on yourself. We all make it up as we go along, and doing the best we can under the circumstances.

I'm sorry you are struggling but I'm afraid there is no evidence to support sleep training. Sleep research does not show any significant long term improvements to infant sleep through sleep training methods.

Wrong! You want evidence? Go to any place that parents of older children gather. You can instantly tell the "gentle parents" who are against any sleep training or any discipline for that matter . They normally look frazzled and at their wits end,with feral ( for want if a better word)children.