Inheritance angst - shocked & angry

[hoopyloopy2]

MIL died like last year and we are just getting to grips now with the details of her estate. FIL died 13 years ago.

To cut a long story short, it’s emerged that she gave a very large amount of money (hundreds of thousands of pounds) to BIL a few years’ ago after he divorced and to enable him to start his own business. DH and I have never received money from his parents - in fact we didn’t even know she had that kind of money.

It’s become clear that DH’s other brother has also received financial support over the years but nowhere near the same level. DH is certainly not more financial comfortable than the other two now or in the past - so there’s no logic as to why he/we were overlooked. Their mum did play favourites over the years, but there was no rift or issue (that we know of) that would explain why she should have skewed things in such an extreme way.

DH has confronted BIL after working all this out by going through years of bank accounts. BIL says it was a loan that he was intending to pay back at some point, but he hasn’t. Issue now is whether this is taken into account when dividing up the estate, DH & I think it should be as amounts to 2/3rds of her savings. MIL did not suggest it should be in her will. But it is SUCH a significant amount of money. BIL is embarrassed & defensive at being found out, and is implying DH is being nosey by going through their mum’s bank accounts in detail - ridiculously.

To put things in context, DH and I are in a financially unstable situation now. He isn’t working after being made redundant several months ago, for the 3rd time in a few years, all very stressful & difficult. I work but we cannot survive on my salary alone. DH has become disillusioned with his line of work and would dearly love the kind of financial support that BIL was given to make choices -ie start his own business or make a career change. We would never have dreamt of asking his mum to bail us out while she was alive though. But it seems BIL had no such qualms - this has shocked us both.

So are we BU to ask for this large payment to BIL to be recognised in how the estate is now divvied up? Ie that he gets a lot less as a result. I know their mum was entitled to spend her money as she liked, so there is no legal case here. I am worried that asking will cause major upsets & divisions but at the same time, it feels profoundly unfair & will fester with DH (and me) if we just let this go.

Apologies if this has been raised already, but if your mother invested in the business, was she set up as a majority shareholder? Are her shares in the business now counted as part of her estate? Therefore BIL would inherit his business, nothing more.

If it was set up as a gift then it will be taxed and therefore should be taken into account as part of the estate too!

How would you know? I had no idea how much money my dad had when he died.

TalkinPeece the 3 sons are the only executors, unfortunately. No-one wants to get lawyers involved, least of all us. As I said before, we assume we’d have no legal case.

Never, ever assume. If ever a will needed legal advice it's this one.

OlBitey don’t know for sure that MIL isn’t a shareholder in BIL’s business - will ask dh to check. But I think that’s highly unlikely. She was in her late seventies when the money was transferred & it was clearly a quiet arrangement.

You can look up the business on companies house online - records should be publicly available there.

BIL is now owe the estate whatever he owed the mother.
Hopefully he will do the right thing and not dispute it.

@hoopyloopy2
TBH I would now suggest that the three brothers agree to hire a solicitor from a reputable firm local to where she lived to sort it
you might - between you - spend £10000
but as she died a while back and the stress is still very raw
the money will be well spent

they will do the probate, the estate checking and the tax calc
(they will want a %of the estate - haggle hard on that and stick to hours)
and then you will all get your rightful shares, after tax, in accordance with her actions and wishes

it will till hurt
but it will hurt less

^ Shows complete unequal respect from MIL. Mil should always do for one child what she can for another when it comes to such HUGE amounts*

Sorry, completely disagree with this, my Mums money was her own, to do exactly what she saw fit to do with it, i didnt help her accrue her wealth but by bring us all up, she spent an absolute fortune on us all.

Also, not all children are the same, my sib's had very little to do with their Mum when she was alive (they moved away and built their careers) but once she was ill and dying, they took a great deal of interest in her financial affairs.

There are several issues, really.

1. What your MIL did with her money whilst she was alive was entirely up to her. Your DH didn't ask for support, your BIL did- and his mum was happy to help. I can understand that doesn't feel entirely fair, but actually it has nothing to do with you as it was her money.

2.What does your MIL's will say? You can't just change it to suit yourself, wills don't work like that. Again, it is her will and so her wishes should be respected. Even if you don't agree with it. The executor has a duty to carry out the wishes of the deceased, as laid out in their will (unless there is a legal reason for doing otherwise, or the will is successfully challenged).

1. If there was a formal agreement, then your BIL owes a debt to the estate and that must be taken into account. If there is no formal loan agreement, then I don't think here is a huge amount you can do if BIL doesn't agree. If you feel very strongly re this, then perhaps seek legal advice re this if he isn't willing to agree.

FIL has given us £10K and H's sister 7K, on the understanding that his other daughter will receive a larger share of the inheritance. How can your H's brother not do the same?

on the understanding that
HA HA HA HA HA
which bit of this thread have you not comprehended ???????

This happened to my husband. One of four. The other three were feckless and their wealthy parents frequently handed over large amounts of cash for houses, cars, vanity degrees, school fees for SIL's daughter, holidays etc "on the understanding" that it would be repaid or deducted from inheritance .Nothing formal however. Husband would say "oh well they need it now, I'll get mine later".

By the time poor FIL died in a nursing home there was hardly anything left. The vultures had bled him dry. We paid the balance of the fees, his funeral etc. The inheritance tax for all the gifts from the last 7 years swallowed the estate. Luckily I earn a good salary (I'm the main breadwinner) and we are fine. My husband feels a bit queasy at the thought of all that money pissed up the wall - his siblings are poor as church mice again now and expect us to keep them in the manner to which they are accustomed (that will be a no from me). His parents had three grandchildren and two of them are ours and have had / get fuck all.

In short it's not fair but it's just tough shit. Sometimes you have to pick yourself up and walk on.

jacks11, op has said there are inheritance tax implications. Regardless of what mil's will might say, or anyone else might say, that has to be dealt with.

OP, I think your dh and his dbs really need proper legal and financial advice.

You can change wills after death. It's called a deed of variation.

www.gov.uk/alter-a-will-after-a-death

Everyone has to agree however. And to be frank, if everyone agrees it's probably easier to sort it out without the courts being involved.

Go to a wills and probate lawyer. Run the situation by them and they can tell you exactly what your options are.

And to reiterate what many up thread have said, of course the executors go through the bank accounts. That's what they are supposed to do.

Strange that you didn't know that she had that kind of money, yet the BIL did?

There are absolute laws around 'gifts' given if the giver dies within a certain time so this must be divulged to the solicitors holding the will or the brother may be charged with inheritance fraud. If he admits to the solicitors that it was a loan then that loan is repayable to the estate so he should be taking off a third of the loan (his third) and repaying the other two thirds to his brothers.

fengshui
deed of variation starts at £10k legal costs
been there
done that

All things considered I think YANBU.

Think of him as the prodigal son and he's had inheritance already.

I do not think he should have an interest free loan AND a third of the estate.

I know Talk it's just that a pp said that you can't change a will because it does not work like that. There are loads of ways you can change a will, which as you as a tax accountant will know as well as I do [profession unrevealed for posting purposes] . ;)

I think the Op should go to a specialist IRL and run it through with them because these things turn on the facts often. No point getting het up online with people opining about her motivations and saying 'nothing can be done'. It may well be that nothing can be done, but unless the Op posts screen shots of it all, none of us will know.

callmeadoctor

Strange that you didn't know that she had that kind of money, yet the BIL did?

I know - amazing how little we can know about family members. This experience is teaching me that much.

I agree that's it's not about the money but about the last message sent by the deceased.
There is one family member who was once seen as a very close family member. After their death there is no longer a memory. It's not about the money but all about the way my mother's memory was treated. I will never forgive or forget this.
Their choice to leave the will they did, my choice to judge them until I die on it.

It's not your money. No one has a 'right'

I think the most I would do is suggest to the BIL that it's fairer to split things but if he disagrees, you just walk away and split it according to the will.

My DH is one of 4 siblings. We are fully expecting to be completely left out of the will when the time comes. PILS have given significant money to all the other siblings over the years but none to us. Yes it's unfair. Yes it's crap. But ultimately, it's not our money.

I think you need to hope that bil does the right thing and takes no more money out of the estate.
It would affect my feelings towards him if he didn't. I'd also be annoyed that he is annoyed that you found out about it. Was he hoping that no one would know about it?

Ideally he should pay some of the "loan" back to you guys, but I guess that is probably too much to ask. Nice if he suggested it though.

Take the money that was left to you in the will.

You can't lose what you never had. What she chose to do with her money when she was alive is her business and what she chose to leave in the event of her death is yours but only the money that applies to your DH.

I'm sure she'd never have left any if she thought you'd argue about it. I hate it when families do this.