Inheritance angst - shocked & angry

[hoopyloopy2]

MIL died like last year and we are just getting to grips now with the details of her estate. FIL died 13 years ago.

To cut a long story short, it’s emerged that she gave a very large amount of money (hundreds of thousands of pounds) to BIL a few years’ ago after he divorced and to enable him to start his own business. DH and I have never received money from his parents - in fact we didn’t even know she had that kind of money.

It’s become clear that DH’s other brother has also received financial support over the years but nowhere near the same level. DH is certainly not more financial comfortable than the other two now or in the past - so there’s no logic as to why he/we were overlooked. Their mum did play favourites over the years, but there was no rift or issue (that we know of) that would explain why she should have skewed things in such an extreme way.

DH has confronted BIL after working all this out by going through years of bank accounts. BIL says it was a loan that he was intending to pay back at some point, but he hasn’t. Issue now is whether this is taken into account when dividing up the estate, DH & I think it should be as amounts to 2/3rds of her savings. MIL did not suggest it should be in her will. But it is SUCH a significant amount of money. BIL is embarrassed & defensive at being found out, and is implying DH is being nosey by going through their mum’s bank accounts in detail - ridiculously.

To put things in context, DH and I are in a financially unstable situation now. He isn’t working after being made redundant several months ago, for the 3rd time in a few years, all very stressful & difficult. I work but we cannot survive on my salary alone. DH has become disillusioned with his line of work and would dearly love the kind of financial support that BIL was given to make choices -ie start his own business or make a career change. We would never have dreamt of asking his mum to bail us out while she was alive though. But it seems BIL had no such qualms - this has shocked us both.

So are we BU to ask for this large payment to BIL to be recognised in how the estate is now divvied up? Ie that he gets a lot less as a result. I know their mum was entitled to spend her money as she liked, so there is no legal case here. I am worried that asking will cause major upsets & divisions but at the same time, it feels profoundly unfair & will fester with DH (and me) if we just let this go.

jasjas it can feasibly increase to £900k when you include their home. However, depending upon where they lived, £900k may just cover a studio apartment!

This is sad..,
Op my heart out to your dh.

I think this is a no win situation

I keep trying to point out
I'm a tax accountant who understands estates

I also got the shitty end of the stick from a family "inheritance"
it was the most painful week of my life
I still do not know what I did to make that person hate me

the beneficiary said things that will never be forgotten or forgiven
I use FB to check they are still alive

we did not "need" the money - but knowing that the older person did not think we deserved it was so, so painful

If only MIL had said 'I loaned Fred XXX towards his new business - I know you'll sort it out when I'm gone, if it hasn't been repaid'

Exactly. And the fact she didn't, she elected not to tell them or to have it repaid on her death says this was absolutely her intent.

We are not part of this family, so we do not understand the dynamics or what caused her to behave this way, although we can guess based on the op and her husbands behaviour now in trying to over turn her will and demand more inheritance than she left them, and to take it off his sibling, but there can be no doubt what has occurred was her intent.

I get that hurts that she gave to one and not the others, that she did not tell the others, and she still wanted the will split evenly, but that's what she wanted.

Op, I have been in a similar position, not as much money, but my DB blackmailed my mum to give him money to help buy his house (he has never worked and it seems she was also bank rolling him to tune of 100s a month. SIL's wealthy employers lent the 'mortgage' but wouldn't lend full amount.) In his own words, he dragged her to the bank to do the transfer.

I wasn't told, but other relatives were. Mum was threatened by my DB to keep quiet and my cousins didn't know how to tell me without causing a massive fall out. He didn't want me to know as he knew that if she gave me the same his eventual inheritance would be reduced.

I found out about the monthly payments by chance when she was ill and we managed her cheque books, she then blurted out about the large lump sum. He then wrote her a nasty letter, seen by cousins, in which he said he would force her to change her will as he deserved everything. My cousin said the vitriol in the letter was astounding. As you can imagine, I have had very little to do with him since she died 2 yrs ago.

It was never about the money, we have more than enough, but the feeling that she thought more of him and was willing to tell others in the family but keep it quiet from me.

She didn't change the will and she did give me the same amount before she died, her choice, so he didn't end up with more. But the damage had been done and I lost all my respect and a lot of love for her.

Your nbu.

1. It was kept a secret. Really his business and success was built on a lie. How could they keep silent. If there was nothing wrong why hide it?

1. Shows complete unequal respect from MIL. Mil should always do for one child what she can for another when it comes to such HUGE amounts.

1. I don't think parents can just do what they like with their money when it comes to children. Mabey iabu but favoring one child is a big no no to me. If at Xmas one kid got a present one didn't it would be harsh why is it any different with such sums of money.

I certainly don't think they need give any money but if they do it should be considered and open.

Also as Sophiesdog says I don't know the ins and outs but some parents are bullied in which case this is different.

The OP has already said there is an IHT implication jas and depending on when the DFIL died his 'share' of the non-taxable burden may or may not have been passed on to the OP's MIL.

When you take housing into account (as IHT obviously does) and depending on where you live then it may not necessarily take much to raise a person above the threshold.

It's like our neighbour who complained about the 'rich' avoiding IHT by sharing the tax relief between spouses. Until we asked him how much he thought his house was worth...... £60 odd K when he bought it. About £380 k now. He was shocked to realise he was now dragged into the IHT threshold. Pensioner. Late 70s. Worked part time in an abattoir until could work no longer due to workplace injury. But wealthy enough to pay IHT.

My friend had this with her brother when their mum died. A loan, never intending to repay. Caused a huge rift. Get a solicitor and have all parties present to put it on the table.

The fact that inheritance tax is involved makes the situation even more galling because presumably the money will be treated as part of the estate for tax purposes. If I were in your DH's position and the brother did not agree it was a loan I doubt I would ever want to speak to him again, and would regard what he had done as a devious way to extract more money than siblings.

backsackcraic I think this is my business. Dh & I are a team, that’s how we do things. I won’t be the one conducting any conversations with BIL, but I don’t agree that it has nothing to do with me.

Polkadotwellies - If there was nothing wrong why hide it?

This was always my thought, if my mum and DB thought they were doing no wrong, why keep it quiet?

Shows complete unequal respect from MIL.

This too, I felt it was showing complete disrespect to me, for others in our family to know but not me. It was an awful feeling when I found out. I would have walked away, and did for a while, but she was dying and I knew I had to live with my conscience when she died. The sad thing is, I wouldnt have objected to him having the money if they had told me at the time. But he didnt want me to know!

All those saying it shouldn't destroy the sibling relationship, have actually no idea. My DB and I always had a difficult relationship, he was very much the favourite, but the money almost completely destroyed it.

I say almost, he has recently lost a child and I spent time supporting him and his wife. My cousin has commended my strength in doing that, given our history, but I did what I felt was the right thing in the circumstances and for my conscience.

@hoopyloopy2
are your DH and his brothers the sole executors
or is there a solicitor in place too

• presumably to deal with the lengthy probate

..... could you not hand it all over to the external bod ?

Hmmmm. I don't know about legally but an imbalance of hundreds of thousands of pounds...seems worth asking a solicitor about

I have absolutely no idea on the legal side, but if my siblings need financial help and my parents can provide that help then great. If I need it they would help me. None of us would begrudge another one from receiving it, and none of us would expect it to come out of any inheritance, it's just what our parents do, help out their kids when they can. And whilst I don't know the exact amount of inheritance I will eventually get, I would certainly know if they had hundreds of thousands in the bank without waiting for them to die and trawl through bank statements.

@hoopyloopy2 of course it has everything to do with you, and people who think it doesn't seem to have no idea how marriage works.

All those saying it shouldn't destroy the sibling relationship
are saying it because it doesn't affect them. If they thought their DB was going to pocket £150k at their expense, by devious means, 'why can't everyone be nice. would go out the window

Op I can see why you’re upset, you don’t sound grabby/vulgar/any other slur that’s been banded around.

If I was in your situation, I think I’d sort out tax implications first. That should help Thd brother to see the implications.

After that I think I would go with a suggested compromise - DB we want to maintain our relationship, you say it was a loan, and we are now in a difficult financial position ourselves. Well fine, let’s write all but xxK (whatever sum you think is reasonable enough to pacify your feelings) off and forget about it.

waiting for them to die and trawl through bank statements

How many times does it have to be said? Executors have to trawl through bank statements.

You really wouldn't, sweeney, I was gobstruck when my dad died. There were accounts all over the place, he was like a squirrel.

My DH and I have lent money to one of our DC. They needed our help; the other one doesn't. In our will the money is divided equally, but the DC who has had help receives their sum less the amount we have loaned. That's our choice, and if your MIL had wished to do this she could have done. She didn't, and that's her decision and you must respect it.

In the meantime our money is ours to spend as we please and if we want to help either of our DC out we will.

I had a relative who didn't change her will after the main beneficiary predeceased her. We think she believed that share of the estate would pass to the beneficiary's children. It didn't, it went to the other main beneficiary - a charity - and it really wasn't the money that was the issue, it was all her personal possessions and family heirlooms. It was heartbreaking as we were absolutely sure she wouldn't have wanted them to be sold and not passed on to family members. But while we were sure that wasn't what she wanted, we couldn't know for certain what she did want.

Even if you think your MIL should have done something different, you cannot know that she would be happy with what you are proposing. You should respect her wishes - and that is the wording of her will.

I think the tax implication is with BIL for receiving the cash there are limits to what you can be given tax free. Doesn't sound like the loan was formally agreed in writing so would probably be classed as a gift by HMRC. As for the estate if BIL agrees its a loan like anyone else that owes the estate money it forms part of the estate. BIL will need to also look into the legalities of this too. Bit of a bloody mess.

I'm not in the 'why can't everyone be nice' camp.

I just think it's been made clear neither of the brothers who've received money already have any intention of factoring into the inheritance.

That's despite the fact they know the others know the situation.

I'd be seriously pissed off and it would change my relationships with them however there seems very little point in persuing matters.

It's only going to make feelings even worse.

Oh I would bluelady. They are relatively open about things like that. They are both of the opinion that 'shrouds don't have pockets' and would rather give us money now and see us enjoy it, whereas we want them to spend it on enjoying themselves and make their final years happy and comfortable.

How many times does it have to be said? Executors have to trawl through bank statements.

Not disputing that, merely saying that wouldn't be my first inkling of either of my parents having that sort of money.