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That many people believe they are pro choice but are not

555 replies

winterstail · 28/04/2018 15:32

My understanding of pro choice is that you support a woman's right to terminate a pregnancy.

Many people claim to be pro choice but then express shock at the reason a woman chooses to terminate.

This isn't pro choice then, is it?

OP posts:
OrchidInTheSun · 29/04/2018 21:37

It's already legal for terminations of foetuses with severe disabilities to be terminated at any time. I think that should apply to all.

Voice0fReason · 29/04/2018 21:39

Who can't get themselves organised in three months?
I had no idea I was pregnant until 14 weeks, it then took another week to arrange the date for the abortion. I was on the pill, still having periods and responsible. I was unlucky.

As for the notion that you should only be allowed to have 1 abortion, that's just insane. So you're allowed to be unlucky once in your life but never more than that? It's not even logistically possible. An abortion at a private clinic does not go on your medical records.

I make exceptions to victims of rape that goes without saying
Does she have to prove she was raped?

Windthebobbinup1982 · 29/04/2018 23:28

If you think there should be one single restriction on abortion, you think women are less deserving of rights than a corpse.

This is taking the pro-choice argument to absurd lengths... You’re effectively saying that the vast majority of women in the U.K. (i.e. surveys show that only a small minority agree are fully pro-choice) believe they have less rights than a corpse Confused

The vast majority see the issue as an ethically complex one, but what I fail to understand is how some of those with pro-choice views can’t even comprehend how anyone could possibly have a different view unless they are somehow mad, bad or indoctrinated, in the same way someone might not comprehend how someone could possibly believe the moon was made out of cheese! Perhaps it’s because the unequivocally pro-choice, much like the unequivocally pro-life, can only view the world in black and white dogmatic terms.

Juells · 01/05/2018 10:42

Are some posters seriously considering the right to abort at the same time as a c-section ie birth. Who could do this would you expect doctors and nurses

It's impossible to get your head around, isn't it? Maybe they think the baby should be left crying in a kidney dish, with nurses listening to the cries getting weaker and weaker, or perhaps one of the doctors should stab it?

DougFargo · 01/05/2018 10:46

Many people claim to be pro choice but then express shock at the reason a woman chooses to terminate. This isn't pro choice then, is it?

How isn't it? If you are pro choice you support the idea that everyone should be able to make the choice for themselves. Thats it. It doesn't mean you can't have your own feelings about their choices. It doesn't mean you can't judge, if you want.

As long as you don't think your opinions or feelings should affect how someone else can choose, thats pro choice.

Stephisaur · 01/05/2018 11:00

I consider myself to be pro choice. I think that a woman's body is her own, and she should absolutely not be forced to carry a baby that she doesn't want to bring into this world.

I also believe that termination for medical reasons is not something that is done lightly, and therefore I do not judge those who must make that awful decision.

I do, however, believe that more could be done to educate people on their birth control choices to hopefully reduce the amount of terminations as birth control. However, if that is the reason for the termination then, again, that is the woman's choice.

Juells · 01/05/2018 11:02

As long as you don't think your opinions or feelings should affect how someone else can choose, thats pro choice.

^^This

There are things about abortion that really upset me, but I believe that other women have the right to do what they want.

Afternooncatnap · 01/05/2018 11:06

On a personal level I am pro life. I don't think it's morally right to abort a baby; even in the case of disabilities. Does a disabled child not have a right to life because its not perfect. Would you kill your child because they got life limiting injuries in an accident? Aborting disabled people is eugenics. You want a baby you commit to raising that baby, regardless of how they turn out.

Saying that, it's not my place to tell other people what to do with their lives or how to set their own moral compass. So I think all abortion should be legal and 100% the mothers choice.

sosks · 01/05/2018 11:39

I think choice is extremely important.

My son was stillborn at full term as a result of a rare genetic condition. We knew his chances may be slim. But that was our choice to make.

By making that choice I got to spend time with my son, make memories and most importantly, figure out what was wrong. We wouldn't have known if we had terminated, and having since split from my ex I would have thought it may happen again.

That's what I wanted. I would hate for that choice to have been taken away from me, equally I'd hate for someone else to be forced to go through what I did unwillingly - it was difficult enough by choice.

Juells · 01/05/2018 11:49

Aborting disabled people is eugenics.

You're entitled to your view, and you're entitled to choose to have a disabled child. But you can't make that choice for other people. Life is tough enough, I wouldn't want to inflict it on a child that will struggle with disabilities.

surferjet · 01/05/2018 11:56

I’d abort a child with Down’s syndrome. It’s not nice, but I wouldn’t want the struggle for myself or my existing children.

ILikeMyChickenFried · 01/05/2018 12:13

Juells, you literally just repeated what the poster you're quoting from said in her 2nd paragraph Confused

PoundingTheStreets · 01/05/2018 13:01

I've found it really informative reading this.

Flowers to all of you who have been recounted your deeply moving, personal experiences - regardless of which side of the debate you were on. This is a topic that should never lose sight of the personal impact even when recognising there is a bigger picture.

I would call myself pro-choice, but from reading this thread I realise I have my own beliefs and prejudices and may not be as pro choice as I first thought. That leaves me wanting to find out more to develop my thinking on this.

I do not believe in a soul separate to the body and from what I know about brain development in the developing foetus, particularly the later stages of neural connections after the parts of the brain have already formed, I do not believe a baby is a baby until quite late.

Based on this, I believe that women should be able to access abortion as easily as they can any other medical procedure, with only one Dr being involved and without having to travel. I think this should be the case certainly for the first 2 trimesters, regardless of concerns about how such young foetuses can now be considered viable due to advances in technology. The point with viability IMO is that life cannot be sustained without signifiant medical intervention and therefore it is a straw man argument to use this to argue that the foetus in utero is already a viable life.

I have an ethical dilemma over late stage abortions and I realise I have a lot left to learn about this. My instinct tells me that, if legal, the overwhelming majority of women are simply NOT going to demand an abortion at this stage - with all the physical trauma that would involve - unless they honestly, genuinely believed there was no other way. I just don't buy into the argument that scorned women will do this to punish their recent exes, or feckless women will do this because they've somehow just changed their mind. Statistically speaking you may find a small number who would do this, but I'd argue such thoughts indicate at best a mental illness/personality disorder that requires treatment, and at worst should make it very clear that such women should definitely not be forced into rearing a child who will bear the fall out.

I have other concerns about women being bullied by men/wider families into aborting a child (particularly in cases where honour-based violence may be an issue), and we would need to think about how we could ensure we struck the right balance between ensuring we are asking women enough questions to ensure this isn't happening, and not asking so many we bully them out of having an abortion that is actually the right thing for them.

For the same reasons, although I think we should be allowing women to have an abortion just because they don't want a baby, I don't think we should be taking a 'no questions asked' approach either. Some women who have repeat abortions do so because they are denied access to reliable contraception. We should be picking up on this and trying to offer help.

It's a very complex issue and one I still haven't completely articulated my thoughts on, but in general I see myself as very much pro choice.

BarbarianMum · 01/05/2018 13:09

Women should never have to carry a fetus they don't want but after a certain gestation that doesn't mean she's entitled to have the fetus killed imo. If it can survive (and surviving can reasonably be held to be in its best interests) then it should be allowed to do so.

Juells · 01/05/2018 13:32

@ILikeMyChickenFried

Juells, you literally just repeated what the poster you're quoting from said in her 2nd paragraph

Rush of blood to the head!

DougFargo · 01/05/2018 13:42

I would call myself pro-choice, but from reading this thread I realise I have my own beliefs and prejudices and may not be as pro choice as I first thought. That leaves me wanting to find out more to develop my thinking on this

Do you think every individual woman should be able to choose for herself whether she continues a pregnancy or not? If yes, you are pro choice. if not, you are not.

It's not difficult, we don't have to dress it up as a complex question.

Branleuse · 01/05/2018 17:06

When people are all about "viability", and you cant abort after 23/24 weeks because the "baby" is viable. We really need to option to just deliver at that stage if theyre so sure it would survive.
I think its horrible that the stage between 24 weeks and 40 weeks, a woman is just a vessel with no autonomy over the situation

formerbabe · 01/05/2018 17:17

I think its horrible that the stage between 24 weeks and 40 weeks, a woman is just a vessel with no autonomy over the situation

It's not about women being used as vessels as you put it. It's about the law having to weigh up the rights of the woman against the rights of a fetus/baby who could potentially live independently of its mother (albeit with medical support).

Branleuse · 01/05/2018 17:38

well if it can live independently, then deliver it.

ILikeMyChickenFried · 01/05/2018 17:40

It must be unusual for a woman to discover a pregnancy after 24 weeks

DougFargo · 01/05/2018 17:40

well if it can live independently, then deliver it

Why, if I don't want to?

formerbabe · 01/05/2018 17:40

well if it can live independently, then deliver it

A completely nonsensical argument.

Smeddum · 01/05/2018 17:47

This argument is becoming farcical. It involves delivery at that stage, irrespective of whether the birth is live or not.

I delivered my son at 23 + 5, he’d already died by then, 5 days previously so wasn’t registered because it was pre 24 weeks (viable). It wasn’t fun. Nobody would have a termination at this stage “just because”, or if they did, I’m guessing they’d be in the minority.

Anyway, it’s all getting a little ridiculous now.

QueenofmyPrinces · 01/05/2018 17:52

I fully support that women have the right to make their own choices but that doesn’t mean though that I have to agree with and understand the decision they make.

PoundingTheStreets · 01/05/2018 19:39

It's not difficult, we don't have to dress it up as a complex question.

I disagree.