Should I tell my mum?

[MousyLousy]

I have NC for this as it's very outing. Please be kind with me as my head is spinning.

I'm in my early 20s. My dad decided to up and leave my mum about 3 months ago now. They've been married 25 years and always seemed happy to us (adult) kids. He moved into a flat near my house, which is about half an hour from my mum's, and said it'd be nice because he could see me (and my DC) more.

He's been acting really shady the past few months and made weird excuses for things. My mum wondered if he left her for another woman.

Dad decided to take us on a coastal weekend away which was quite nice but felt a bit forced. He went out to watch football one night with my DP and my sister and I went snooping as we felt like we were being lied to. Yes, I know IABU to have done this, but it was very fruitful. Turns out he has a whole secret life. We found:

• receipts for a very posh restaurant for a meal and drinks for 2 people amounting to an eye-watering £425
• an annual joint gym membership for himself, his new woman and her four children
• a receipt for work done on a new 7 seater Audi Q7
• John Lewis order forms for furniture amounting to thousands being delivered to an address just down the road from his flat. Some of it under her name and some under his.

Since we found her name we did some googling. She's 30. He's almost 50. She's only a few years older than me. One of her kids only looks slightly older than mine.
We found this address where furniture has been delivered to. The house was purchased in September for half a million pounds - we're in the North so this is a lot of money. It's a huge house.

My dad swears there is no other woman and is blaming the divorce on my mum; says she was hard to live with and fell out of love with her. Thats certainly true, my mum is difficult and we never had a good relationship when I was younger. But she does love my dad to bits.

So here's the thing. He sent the divorce papers through on Wednesday. He is suggesting she keep their family home (worth approx. £400k) her car (£20k) and the money in their joint account (not sure, around £80k), if he can have both of their rental properties (worth probably £400k joint), his car (£50k) and his pension (£???). My mum is thinking of agreeing to this.

My issue is:-

1. I think he has money stashed away. He's a managing director and earns £130k a year. He's obviously put a lot of money into this new house with his new woman, and bought a new car outright and furniture and god knows what else. Mum found he's funnelled over £15k in small increments out of the joint account throughout Jan and Feb without her even noticing.
2. my mum gave up her job when we were little at his request so she could be a SAHM to us kids. She never went back to work and instead does lots of volunteering projects and bakes from home which is pretty much non-profit, maybe £1k a year. Because of this she has little-to-no personal savings, just the money in their joint account. She also has no recent work experience and no pension except a tiny one from when she used to work before having us. She's found herself a job but it's only just over min wage due to her lack of experience and 'modern' skills with computers etc. My dad always said his pension would have them sorted for retirement but now he's planning to keep it himself.

What do I do? Tell my mum about the affair so she can counter his divorce and get a better, fairer settlement? Pretend I don't know and keep out of it due to the risk of falling out with my dad?

Sorry for the rambling.

Well done OP on getting your mum some legal advice.
I would imagine that the new house is in your dads name.
So that's another asset.
The pension will be worth a lot if your dad earns like that.
And that £130K won't include bonus, which will no doubt be huge.
Do you know how long the OW has worked for your dad?
That might help you ascertain if the DC could be his or not.

If she wants to make a quick bat back on finances, I'd accept what has been offered along with the 2 rental properties.
That way she has an income for many years to come.
But hopefully the lawyer will give you some good advice.

Good luck to you and your mum.

Have you done a land registry search on the other property?

How will you feel if you don't tell your mother, then once the divorce has gone through and the dust all settled, your dad introduces you to your 'little brother and sister', you find out he's just been waiting for you and your sister to be off his hands so he can move on to his new improved family...

Well done OP. Your mum needs a fair share of the marital assets, and a solicitor will help protect those. Given the length of the marriage, your mum will also likely be entitled to spousal support (particularly given your dad’s earnings). The solicitor will advise on all that too.
It sounds like it will be horrid time ahead for all of you, unfortunately.

I think you're doing it the right way.

One thing I would suggest is that your mum opens a personal bank account and moves the joint money into it, before your DF slips it all out himself.

And she absolutely shouldn't give up her share of his pension.

I know you "don't want to hurt her unnecessarily" but how long do you think it will be before she finds out?

You HAVE to tell her.

He is already spending HER money, family money, on his 2nd family!

My sisters aided and abetted my father and it hurt my mum deeply. She died shortly afterwards. My father is now married to the OW and didn't even tell us.

Well done op, hope that the meeting went ok today.

I love my mum and dad so much but if my dad could do this to the woman who he fathered a child with...I say fuck him tell your mum

@MousyLousy how did it go with the solicitor? Did you get some good advice?

@NameWithChamge we couldn't get an appointment for yesterday. We've gone for a big, well-known firm who are regarded highly for their divorce advice. We're meeting with them Tuesday.

Oh that's good. A plan in place. I think some things will get easier once you have established the facts and can see a way forward.

Must have been awful in this no mans land for you knowing what you know.

Best of luck.

I wouldn't disclose what you have done but say that you are suspicious. For one, he has plenty of money to rent a flat and you could wonder if there are savings undisclosed. Second, you know a pension is more valuable than the house, so she should not agree to that. Tell her you have read about forensic accountants and that she needs a full disclosure before agreeing. Ask a PI for a quote, maybe it's cheaper than you thought. Keep yourself out of it by getting in the lawyers, accountants and PI who will provide your DM with the necessary proof. At worst, pass what you know to one of them privately and ask them to not tell her where the details came from.

I'd do this just for the sake of your children. He might be a bad husband and not very good dad, but still a caring grandfather. I wouldn't want to cut contact but for my DM to get her fair share, which can be done without telling her, just tell the solicitor in confidence.

Best of luck on tuesday. your mum should look for a minimum of 50/50 of everything - pension included. I'd def try to find out who's name the new house is in - it's a marital asset and as such your mum has a claim on it. Tell the solicitor you suspect hidden assets incl property. I'd tell your mum your suspicions. She needs to find her anger, but keep him in the dark for as long as possible. Your dad has no loyalty to you or your sister, sadly you need to be prepared for his new family to be all encompassing. He's not a nice person.

I think you can also ask that he pays the lawyers fees can't remember what's it's called but it's where on has considerable earnings and the other doesn't

Also do a check to see who owns the other house - it's good to know!

we couldn't get an appointment for yesterday. We've gone for a big, well-known firm who are regarded highly for their divorce advice. We're meeting with them Tuesday.

fantastic OP.. everything helps .. they will hopefully be on the ball .. so glad you Mum has you supporting her.. even if she's not fully aware of the situ

Your Dad's pension will be worth a huge amount I would imagine. Why should his new woman and her kids benefit from it? In reality your mum could downsize and buy a small place outright from the proceeds and leave herself with more cash to live on. I take it there is no mortgage on the house? If there is he can't just let her have it unless she can prove affordability on remaining mortgage payments.

Your dad can have his new life but it is unfair if he is hiding his true worth from your mum. Divorces aren't always 50:50 splits anymore but full disclosure would let the courts see what is fair. These types of things really upset me as so many women rely on their husbands for financial stability in the future due to not having much put aside in pensions if they are SAHM.

I am sorry you have this dilemma. I think only you can decide what to do for the besr. Good luck x

Well done OP. You are doing the right thing. Since this is a recent split, the half million-pound house he just bought should also part of the matrimonial assets to split. Where did that money come from? So, really, she should be getting half his pension, the original house and a fair settlement on the rental properties to offset the property he just bought. Deffo need a forensic accountant.

OP i was almost exactley in your position the only difference was i was 19 when i broke into my dads email. Found out he had a second family (with a 27 year old) and that he had been putting thousands and thousands into an offshore account that my mum could touch in the divorce.

The only difference is i wasnt mature to be able to steer my mum in the right direction and instead was a spectator as my dad swindled my mum out of 75% of their marital assets even though it was my maternal grandad that gave them the deposit for their firs house and loaned them money to start a business which my mum did the books/wages for and was the primary parent.

And my dad was the PERFECT husband and father on the surface.

On a purely practical level think about the fact that your mum has no pension contributions so when inevitably she will need help in her old age that will fall and you and what your father deemed her worthy of keeping.

He's not just making a mockery of your mum but of you.

This is bringing up so many memories and emotions for me.

I honestly think you need to tell your mum everything, whats to stop your dad going round to her without you know and getting her to sign papers?

You need to view your dad as a stranger now and not think you'll know how he'll act. Your mum needs to be protected and then nore importantly get angry.

OP you sound like a great daughter who has your mums back;

glad you have found her a good solicitor, it sounds like she really does need good and proper legal advice to ensure she gets every she is entitled to, so that she is not left short in her old age, she has ensured with her commitment to the family that your father has a good income and pension, it is wrong that someone else should benefit from her hard work and career sacrifices

a forensic accountant is a good idea, if your df managed to take £15,000 from their account in two month, and potentially this thing with the other woman has been going on for 5 years (based on youngest child being 4) he could easily have taken 250k or more.

You need to tell her, I am sure she would rather hear it from you than find out from someone else. It wont be easy for her to hear but she probably has her suspicions already.

good luck to you all, its horrible to hear that so many men do this sort of thing

Your mother will need an income. While he is offering some assets, these will not bring in any income unless your mother sells them. Pension assets should be shared fairly so they both have some security after retirement.

OP another thing that just struck me is that growing up i to found my mum difficult and it was my dad who was the favorite parent.

Hindsight i now realise how much hard work my dad probably was (no cooking or cleaning) he would book big family holidays withouy consulting my mum and then she would have to work out how theu were going to budget for the rest of the year.

I think you'll see your mum in a completely different light soon as now i couldnt live without mine.

Great that you are getting legal advice. Can't emphasise enough that your mum needs to agree something that gives her a regular income. A family friend was in very similar circumstances 10 years ago and agreed to have the house while her husband had 2 rental properties and a £100k annual income from his job. She too had given up her career to look after their children and struggled to find minimum wage jobs. She then got ill and was unable to work for a couple of years. Thankfully now she's better but still stuck with a low income job and had to take in a lodger.

At the time she thought he was being generous re the house, and although she is "better off" than many people, he has done far better out of the divorce than she has. You really need to think long term and consider what your mum's income is going to be in her 80s and 90s.

glad you've found a good solicitor , it'll be worth every penny

Tell her to accept the deal on the condition that your dad flips it so that she gets what he is proposing to keep and he gets what he is proposing she keeps... after all if he thinks it's a fair and equal division of assets then he should have no problems switching the two...

Oh. Wait... I suspect you won't see him or his solicitor for dust as there's no way he would accept what he is offering your mum, despite him being in a position to earn significant income and increase his pension and savings over the next few years..

Glad to hear you are seeing solicitors. I've seen on MN before that it can be an idea to talk to as many of the best local solicitors around for advice because then they can't work for your dad due to potential conflict of interest. If your dad already had a solicitor might be irrelevant but if he doesn't might be worth bearing in mind and finding out if doing this could advantage your dmum.

Definitely sounds like you need to get all the properties valued to make sure that the two rental properties are worth the same as the family home.

And yes yes yes to forensic accountant who can make sure that your mum gets half of everything your dad has taken out of their account over the years - starting with the £15k but I bet there will be a lot more, both cash and for things like the car and furniture as well as romancing the other woman...

Speaking of her - if you have any suspicions regarding the kids being family number 2 and his - can you do some snooping on Facebook (preferably not from an account with your name or your dp's or even old friends names on - make something up) to work out ages and birthdays and see if you can find birth announcements or birth certificates (no idea when they go public for current rather than historical certificates!) as that might give a good idea of how far back to check for money disappearing.

Also any chance of you going back to visit your dad again to find more evidence and to photograph it?

Well done for looking out for your mum and not assuming that your dad will be fair.