To think entry requirements to be a teacher should be higher

[totteringlump]

AIBU to think too many teachers (obviously not all) don’t have particularly good qualifications themselves and so struggle to teach the syllabus to the class? People are able to pass but not excel and these teachers often struggle to advise students about gaining entry to Oxbridge and other places plus about high paid careers.

If students don’t have this advice at home they cannot know.

totteringlump
What do you suggest then?

Whoever wrote the nursery reports (on paper and online) has terrible spelling and grammar. One of the reasons we left the (private and very expensive) school.

I felt like red penning it and send it back 5/10!

You need to be good at getting the kids to learn. Management and engagement are part of that. I completely agree that you need to know the spec inside and out, and i think that to do that you do need to have the big picture in terms of subject knowledge and understanding.

You can’t be a ‘non-academic’ and a teacher. You’ve either done a degree and then teacher training, or a teaching degree with teacher training. Then Skills tests. Further study. On the job training. Constant assessment.
You talk rubbish

It needs to be made a more attractive profession. Realistically, with crap teaching, there’s never going to be a way of bridging the gap between rich and poor as the rich will pay, for private schools or tutors.

Having the best degree is not equal to being the best teacher. The best teachers have in addition to the subject knowledge a huge amount of soft skills and personality traits that are not measurable.

The best and most loved colleagues (as rated by pupils and staff) that I've worked with, are very rarely from an A*/ 1st top quality academic background. They are normally people who are very down to earth and have worked through some kind of disadvantage, but they are the ones that pupils relate to. Having a 1st does not necessarily qualify you to be the best person to explain concepts to those who don't naturally grasp them, particularly for younger or lower ability students.

I've taught 6 subjects... I have a fairly normal 3 A-levels and one degree. My main subject is one that frequently leads to the teaching of a few subjects, and I have been recruited to teach those sister subjects at KS3 and KS4 alongside and independently of my main subject. With a good general knowledge and interest, and understanding of the curriculum/ exam specs, it's not that difficult to teach them well as the pedagogy is similar. Not all subjects are as transferable. At A-level, subject knowledge becomes far more important, but degrees date. Much of my degree content is now hopelessly out of date. To teach A-Level I have to brush up on what that particular spec wants anyway. The nature of research has also changed as online sources were in their infancy. So a great (secondary) teacher has to be adaptable and ready to continue learning, as well as able to work with barely literate 11 year olds to highly intelligent adults.

I'm not knocking the most academic at all, some will be very welcome additions to the school staff, but they will need to have all those soft attributes too, and a mixed background of staff is a good thing.

Well if you want better qualified teachers, find a way to give them much better salaries!

I can understand your point. My cousin is a primary school teacher. She has no degree

Can you give us more details of her qualification and role, please?

Otherwise I would surmise that this is simply untrue.

Doing a degree in itself isn’t a sign of intelligence nowadays. It just isn’t. A PGCE is hardly demanding academically.

I don't think you have ever needed a 2:1.

I actually think qualification needed should be based on age of child you are teaching. I highly doubt a reception teacher needs an English or maths degree to teach it!

you can't be a teacher without a degree - the old nursery nurse route closed years ago

It's a conundrum.

I can't understand those who are saying, "There's a recruitment crisis! You can't raise the standard!" Well, yes, but on the other hand do you want someone who is not great at a subject (in some cases, any subject) teaching your children?

And I don't think qualifications = aptitude or proficiency, either. I know I could teach History better than dd's teacher, although I don't have a History degree. Her French teacher this year is very good, but there have been ones whose French would make Macron spontaneously combust.

Then there is the geographical angle. I've seen people on here trumpeting that every child has a right to do Further Maths or two languages. And where are you going to get a teacher with such expertise in the outposts of the British Isles? I'm sure crack Maths, Science and Classics teachers are ten-a-penny in Gt Yarmouth.

Careers advice should be from a careers advisor specialist, not from teachers. Schools used to have careers advisors but this has been heavily cut and reduced in recent years. Teachers cannot be experts in careers advice as well as doing their teaching role.

I get the point that being academic in and of itself doesn't make anyone a good teacher, but equally if you were a C/D candidate at A level and got a 3rd, then you aren't well positioned to know what really works to get A*s at A level for your students, are you? You need more than academic ability, but without it, it's hard to see how you could teach on the skills you don't really have yourself. I see some quite poor students (as well as some really good ones) at uni go on to teacher training and I do wonder why they are accepted.

I also agree that teacher retention is the bigger problem- the stress and bureaucracy is too much for many now, and I don't blame them for jumping ship after a few years.

You do need a degree to teach reception, what a stupid comment.

That’s what I mean thespring

do tell us OP what do YOU do for a living and what are your obviously superior qualifications

having a good 2:1 degree in science/maths/English actually does require brains and a PCGE is very challenging

I’m a fucking teacher

And I don’t know many with a 2:1, either!

If I were setting out on my career with my Mathematics degree I wouldn't look at teaching, far too much government and parental interference. Do parents think they know better than their child's doctor, dentist etc.? Actually the parents here probably think they do!
The ability to present one's subject isn't necessarily related to one's degree, I have worked with some very highly qualified people who couldn't teach because they couldn't see it from a child's point of view. Teaching bright children is much easier than the strugglers.
During the war many teachers, mainly women, had no qualifications but did an excellent job, they had empathy.

I’m a fucking teacher

Presumably you’ve got a biology degree to teach fucking?

ob but I bet you are the best teacher who knows everything about Oxbridge (thinking Oxbridge is the be all and end all suggests limited imagination) - and has 27 degrees and 5 masters

No, no biology degree!

Actually, sometimes parents do know best. Obviously officious and arsey parents are a pain but personally I don’t mind being told relevant things about their child that will help, especially where special needs are concerned.

There's no political will at all to improve teacher workload or pay. The response to the crisis in teacher numbers from the government is to deny there is one, and to promote new and varied ways of training to be a teacher. None of these schemes produce the necessary numbers of teachers and so the situation continues.

If schools can't recruit then they are stuck with the fact that they need an adult in the classroom with the children. What are they going to do as the vacancy gets closer and they aren't getting the standard of applicants? They absolutely can't be in the position of having no teacher at all, so they end up appointing pretty much anyone vaguely sensible who applies.